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One of this score's best and most underrated moments, especially in the context of the film, is the introduction of the Kraken's theme in "Row to Tia Dalma". The tense buildup while Gibbs describes the creature's horrors, then the brief pause as he names it, followed by the theme in the absolute lowest registers of the orchestra, quiet, but so so so menacing and also just SUPER FUCKING COOL.<br><br>It gives me goosebumps every time, in a *dialogue scene*. That is incredibly good musical storytelling.Edmund: And posted their one-sentence review of it on the Hans Zimmer fan site.Anything missed from the official release?oh damn really? huh that would be cool. even with the ultimate edition there’s still deleted scenes and I wish they were put on the Blu ray.<br><br>it plays during the scene after the knightmare when Clark is looking through the polaroids that say judge jury executioner on them. i don’t remember if that’s an extended scene or not as I’ve only seen the theatrical cut once in theaters. one and done lol"Chicken Run really makes you FEEL like you're in a concentration camp." - IGN
I guess it comes from a deleted scene where Jesse Eisenberg gets playful with his dinner. Rumor has it it's gonna be included in the Snyder Cut.I love the notion of Barack Obama and IGN teaming up to review 20 year old film scores.Smoothly done soundtrack. IGN - 10/10what the hell is Quaker steak and lube????I disagree on Catwoman. I love Zimmer's theme and I thought it is one of his most underrated themes.
Loved the new tracks!<br><br>Hans & Chris really did something special.<br><br>I enjoyed the Tenet score, but honestly Ludwig's work doesn't compare to Zimmer's. I just hope they work together again instead of Chris choosing Ludwig as his main collaborator from now on.Agreed.<br><br>I don’t know, TDKR feels a little oppressive to me in comparison with BB and TDK , probably as a result of Nolan’s musical tastes veering away from symphonic to more abstract. Reading the new book on Nolan gives me the impression that he has a very similar approach to his music as he does his filmmaking. With that said though, TDKR is still a solid conclusion to the franchise. Bane’s theme is excellent and the culmination of the various “Bat-Themes” do feel well earned. Catwoman’s theme is solid, but for some reason is dropped from most of the movie in favor of the repeating two-note phrase.<br><br>@Moggyman<br>Honestly I feel as if JNH’s work on the first two Hunger Games sequels showed a strong improvement in writing and theme building. The last score was a bit too much of a pastiche, but orchestrally a stronger fit than the first one. And “Crimes of Grindelwald” is easily one of the best sequel scores in the past few years (alongside Star Wars and HTTYD). Unfortunately we still don’t have a good album situation for that though. -_-Counterpoint: I liked Crimes of Grindelwald more than the first Fantastic Beasts. And forget Hanging Tree - "Air Raid Drill" from the first and "Sewer Attack" from the second Mockingjay are the best cues from that series. Plus, JNH honestly hasn't worked on that many sequels so we don't really have enough to go on here. <br><br>I think having JNH on board for Catwoman would have done wonders for this score. Hans' theme is okay, but feels like a bit of an afterthought compared to Bane.TDK & TDKR have amazing theme suites.<br><br>But as for the scores in film, they don't even get close to Batman Begins !I like Tom but idk he's gone downhill in my book. Alita was boring, i was over the moon excited for Terminator cause that was a perfect mix and it was disappointed big time. I'd love to hear Steve Jablonsky tackle that and get back to being as great as he used to, he has been phoning it in big time lately
Ok, before I eat my words, JNH did create the Hanging Tree in Mockingjay p1 which was good, but nothing else other than that in the sequels.For being the so called "weakest", it's very good. And if you think that Bane's theme is repetitive, I would say the same about the Joker's theme in TDK (to me they are both good though). <br><br>Now in all fairness, JNH could have probably added good material to the score since he's a genius, but I personally think he doesn't do well on sequels. Sure, in TDK he gave harvey dent a theme that resonated with his character (but was similar to material already used in BB). Yet, if you look at his work in the hunger games, its seems to me that he couldn't bring something both new and compelling to the sequels as he did in the first movie. I will agree with you that Batman Begins has the best music of the series though.After re-listening to this one, it's clearly the weakest of the trilogy. Of course it's not bad, the new themes are pretty good (though I think Bane's theme is a bit too repetitive and dry at times), there's still emotional moments, but JNH's absence really left a hole in this score.<br><br>I get to an extent that's the point, that all of Bruce's potential for a happy life is gone, but even the emotional tracks to me have nowhere near the emotional resonance that JNH's themes brought to the films. <br><br>"Come With Me" is the best example, where the slow emotional Selina Kyle chords just don't leave much of an impact. Definitely could have used JNH's "Courthouse Pt. 1" or the main theme from "Bruce Left For Dead" to emphasize Bruce's giving up of a quiet life. <br><br>Of course I still appreciate the way the 2 note motif is developed into a theme of its own, as well as the score as a whole, but then you get tracks like "Many Forms of Immortality" which just emphasize how much more effective the thematic work in Batman Begins was.It could also be Tom, who worked on Run All Night, and is already an established DC composer<br>Either way I'll be happyI lowkey think James is gonna score the Black Adam movie. it's the same director from Jungle Cruise so I'm sure he'll be brought along for it

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Hans ZimmerJohn PowellLorne BalfePaul Mounsey
ComposerComposerAdditional MusicAdditional Music
Kung Fu Panda 2
Label: Varese Sarabande
Length: 64'26 rating:        Not yet rated
Fans rating:     rate at 1 out of 5 rate at 2 out of 5 rate at 3 out of 5 rate at 4 out of 5 rate at 5 out of 5   2/5 (13192 votes)
  1. Ancient China - Story Of Shen (2:43)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Paul Mounsey
  2. Dumpling Warrior (1:19)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Paul Mounsey
  3. Inner Peace (2:26)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell
  4. Musicians Village (1:20)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Dominic Lewis
  5. Save Kung Fu (3:41)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
  6. Daddy Issues (4:22)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
  7. Stealth Mode (4:04)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
  8. Gongmen Jail (2:40)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
  9. Rickshaw Chase (2:36)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Paul Mounsey
  10. Po And Shen - Face To Face (5:58)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe, Paul Mounsey
  11. More Cannons! (3:00)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
  12. Fireworks Factory (6:49)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe, Dominic Lewis
  13. Po Finds The Truth (5:04)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell
  14. Invasion Begins (2:37)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Dominic Lewis
  15. Zen Ball Master (7:21)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe, Dominic Lewis
  16. My Fist Hungers For Justice (4:55)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
  17. Dumpling Warrior Remix (3:31)
    Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Junkie XL
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Cynical Makooti reply Replies: 3 || 2020-05-22 16:10:56
Hey, so...a new expanded album for KFP2 seems to have leaked last January, and I haven't seen it listed on this site yet. I bring it up because it finally honest-to-God included a cue from the Zen Ball sequence I've been waiting to hear isolated for years, since BOTH the other albums just completely omitted it. And I dunno, I guess I feel like it deserves some acknowledgement.

Cynical Makooti2020-06-14 17:36:21
01. 1m02 Story of Peacock (2:44)
02. 1m03-04 Dumpling / Late for Training (1:27)
03. 1m05 Inner Peace (2:26)
04. 1m06 Wolf Attack (1:20)
05. 1m07-08 Dragon Noodle Warrior (2:52)
06. 1m09s Joy (Source) (Film Version) (2:39)
07. 1m12 Master Rhino / Shen / Canon (2:52)
08. 2m14-16 End of Dad / Gongmen (3:58)
09. 2m17-18 Po Dreams of Parents (1:36)
10. 2m19As Tricked Pickpocket (Source) (Film Version) (0:28)
11. 2m19B-21 Tigress and Po Spar (Part 2) / Daddy Issues (5:02)
12. 2m23 Stealth Mode (4:10)
13. 3m25 Gongmen Jail (2:50)
14. 3m26 Rickshaw Chase (2:37)
15. 3m28 Surrender Palace (2:20)
16. 3m29A Face to Face (Part 1) (2:15)
17. 3m29B Face to Face (Part 2) (2:07)
18. 3m31 More Cannons (3:54)
19. 3m32 The Hardcore Do Understand (0:56)
20. 4m33-34 Shen Frees Soothsayer (6:57)
21. 4m35 Po Finds the Truth (5:08)
22. 4m37-38 Invasion Begins / Po Returns (2:30)
23. 4m38A Po Throws Hat (0:17)
24. 5m38-40 Po Throws Hat / Free the Five (3:43)
25. 5m41 The Future is Here (1:37)
26. 5m42 Zen Ball (2:26)
27. 5m43-44 Po Defeats Shen / Reunion (5:03)
27. End Credits (9:03)
28. 2m19 v3.09 Tigress & Po Spar (Early Version) (1:01)
29. 3m32 v2.02 The Hardcore Do Understand (Early Version) (1:01)
30. 1m04alt Late for Training (Album Intro) (0:17)
31. 2m20-21 Daddy Issues (Album Version) (4:22)
32. 2m23 Stealth Mode (Album Version) (4:05)
33. 3m25 Gongmen Jail (Album Version) (2:42)
34. 3m31 More Cannons (Album Version) (3:01)
35. 4m33-34alt Shen Frees Soothsayer (Album Version) (6:00)
36. 5m41-42 The Future is Here / Zen Ball (Album Version) (7:22)
37. 5m52ins Zen Ball (Insert) (0:47)
38. Dumpling Warrior Remix (Film Version) (2:58)
39. Dumpling Warrior Remix (Extended) (3:19)
40. Dumpling Warrior Remix (Album Version) (3:32)

Anon2020-10-13 05:29:36
I made that set by editing together the OST and original leak and then simply filling in the gaps by making mockups of missing cues using the sheet music. However, that project is outdated and I've since then redone it. I redid every edit and it includes much more music including both the film and unused versions of 1m10-11. While it is not complete yet, it will most definitely be the most comprehensive to date when finished with around 55-60 cues, including film versions and "rejected" versions I've made from the sheets.

Anon2020-10-13 05:43:52
A quick look at the sheets reveals so much that can be done to expand the score. The tracklist I've made so far using just the ost, leak and mockups from sheet music is as follows.

01 - 1m2v1k Story of Peacock
02 - 1m2v1p Story of Peacock (With Inserts)
03 - 1m3-4v1L Dumpling Late For Training
04 - 1m3-4v1j Dumpling Late For Training (Rejected Version 1)
05 - 1m3-4v1k Dumpling Late For Training (Rejected Version 2)
06 - 1m5v2b Inner Peace
07 - 1m5v1L Inner Peace (Rejected Version)
08 - 1m6v2d Wolf Attack
09 - 1m6v2a Wolf Attack (Rejected Version)
10 - 1m7-8 Village Fight Vision
11 - 1m7-8 Dragon Noodle Warrior (Rejected Version)
12 - 1m9s Joy (Source)
13 - 1m10-11 Father Son & Baby Po
14 - 1m10-11v2a Father Son & Baby Po (Rejected Version)
15 - 1m12-13v3.17 Master Rhino, Shen, Cannon
16 - 1m12v3.14 Master Rhino Spars (Rejected Version)
17 - 2m14-16v2a End of Dad Gongmen
18 - 2m14-16v1s End of Dad Gongmen (Rejected Version)
19 - 2m14-16v1L INTRO Orch (Rejected Version)
20 - 2m17-18v1L Po Dreams More Peace (Film Version)
21 - 2m17-18v1L Po Dreams More Peace (Alternate Mix)
22 - 2m19As Tricked Pickpocket
23 - 2m19Bv3.09 Tigress and Po Spar
24 - 2m19Av3.09 Tigress and Po Spar (Part 1) (Rejected Version 1)
25 - 2m19Av3.16 Tigress and Po Spar (Part 1) (Rejected Version 2)
26 - 2m20-21v3.16 Daddy Issues
27 - 2m20-21v3.09 Daddy Issues (Rejected Version)
28 - 2m23-24v6.00 Stealth Mode
29 - 2m23-24v4.09 Stealth Mode (Rejected Version)
30 - 3m25v5.07 Gongmen Jail (Film Version)
31 - 3m25v5.07 Gongmen Jail
32 - 3m25v3.11 Gongmen Jail (Rejected Version)
33 - 3m26 Rickshaw Chase
34 - 3m26v2a Rickshaw Chase (With Inserts)
35 - 3m28v3.05 Surrender Palace
36 - 3m28v2a Surrender Palace (Rejected Version)
37 - 3m29Av2.17 Face to Face (Part 1) (Film Version)
38 - 3m29Av2.17 Face to Face (Part 1)
39 - 3m29Bv2.17 Face to Face (Part 2)
40 - 3m29v2.17 Face to Face (With m. 58-64, 79-80 Inserts)
41 - 3m31 More Cannons
42 - 3m31v5.07 More Cannons (Rejected Version)
43 - 3m32v6.01 The Hardcore Do Understand

e reply Replies: 0 || 2020-05-24 01:00:09
Can someone ask Powell or Zimmer to put up some demos or suites from this score for study. It's such a great score and a real demonstration that a team effort can produce real quality.

Anon reply Replies: 0 || 2019-11-13 20:36:50
More Cannons!, 2:14 - Jack Sparrow theme from PotC?

commonP reply Replies: 0 || 2017-08-01 17:33:53
Why did Hans not record his suite for this?

Anon reply Replies: 3 || 2015-11-22 02:44:03
Did Lorne work on kf3?

Hybrid Soldier2015-11-22 12:20:44
Yep ! Paul Mounsey as well !

Zimson2015-11-22 18:05:18
Which means we can expect something of as much high value as KFP 2 hopefully.

Edmund Meinerts2015-11-22 19:33:52
I wouldn't be so sure, Zimson. I think it all depends on what sort of shenanigans the director gets up to. Somehow I have the feeling that if she gets her way, we'll end up with a score that's as rehashy as On Stranger Tides. KFP2 managed to avoid that against the odds somehow (I'm not actually sure how), but I very much doubt Zimmer will have much to do with this score and I doubt Mounsey, Balfe etc. will have the spine to tell the director otherwise if she tosses temps from the first two all over the movie.

Between that and the lack of Powell involvement, I don't have such high hopes for this one. Of course I'd be happy to be wrong!

Mike reply Replies: 13 || 2015-08-09 20:40:14
Thinking about Kung Fu Panda 3 here, and wondering, score-wise...

Powell, Zimmer, and co. did Kung Fu Panda 1, and Powell's influence was stronger than Zimmer's. Powell, Zimmer, and co. did Kung Fu Panda 2, and Powell was dissatisfied with the process, while Lorne Balfe's musical voice was given a lot of airtime. Still, there was a lot of Powell influence throughout the score due to the quotations from the first movie.

Now, last time Zimmer worked on an "officially" collaborative score with one other composer was Chris Nolan's Batman movies. For The Dark Knight Rises, though, the only references to the previous films' music were references to the Zimmer material, with none of JNH's music being directly referenced. So given that, but also considering Powell's influence on this series, how much do we think we'll hear references to Powell's KFP contributions in the third movie?


Hybrid Soldier2015-08-09 21:53:32
There's clearly some JNH influence in TDKR !

But yeah... not as much as if JNH was there... lol

Anonymous2015-08-09 22:29:59
Rabbit hole but...I wish JNH had decided to do that movie rather than leaving because of Zimmer and Nolan's established friendship :(

Mike2015-08-09 22:38:32
Anonymous: No argument there!

Hybrid: I guess. Cues like "Nothing Out There For Me," with the piano cue from the other films, do reflect JNH's influence, along with "For Old Times' Sake," which is "Preparing Equipment" from Begins in extended form (which JNH was supposedly in charge of). But the other 99% of the time, TDKR is made up of Hans' contributions to those movies. Still, I guess both composers wrote the core material for Begins, so JNH's influence will ultimately be everywhere.

Either way, back to the KFP topic, it will be interesting to see a KFP film without Powell directly involved, though given that the director loves her temp music, we'll no doubt here Powell contributions tracked into the film. ;)

Anonymous2015-08-10 12:30:27
I simply hope it's not going to sound like nobody in the music department gave an F about the project - like "certain few" projects of yesteryear(s) did.

NM2015-08-10 13:17:37
What are the odds of it being a Hans/Lorne score (which I suppose KFP2 basically was anyway).

Mike2015-08-10 16:26:15
NM, those odds are likely IMO.

Anonymous2015-08-10 22:40:50
i'd say it's more likely that, since lorne is so busy nowadays, steve mazzaro and andrew kawczynski will be brought onboard to help out (zimmer's new bffs) :P

Edmund Meinerts2015-08-11 12:46:11
Mazzaro and Kawczynski are both so electronic though...I hope they can bring in Dom Lewis and/or Paul Mounsey instead to keep that Powell touch.

Mike2015-08-11 14:51:15
Well Dominic Lewis has at least worked on Zimmer scores before (Sherlock Holmes 2, Rango, vocals on TASM 2), so that's not too far-fetched. Paul Mounsey? Maybe. But I don't know.

Edmund Meinerts2015-08-11 17:28:57
Mounsey has worked on at least one "Zimmer" score...Kung Fu Panda 2! :p

Hybrid Soldier2015-08-11 17:38:53
Mounsey is now a regular Elfman guy... :P

Mike2015-08-11 19:14:43
I meant scores where Zimmer is the composer at the helm...And even on KFP2, Mounsey was working under Powell. ;)

Edmund Meinerts2015-08-11 19:55:10
Yeah...It's funny how much I thought Epic sounded more like a Powell score than an Elfman one when it first came out, and I take a closer look, and there Mounsey is doing additionals. ^^

NM reply Replies: 22 || 2015-07-25 19:32:36
@Hyrid "It's not HZ who didn't do KFP 2, it's Powell who jumped ship !"

Just to move that discussion back here... can you tell us what happened on that score? It seems like most people's assumptions were completely wrong! (as usual haha)

Hybrid Soldier2015-07-25 19:54:01
Powell couldn't stand the director who was in love with the KFP 1 temp music... Of course the director is also the KFP 3 director... lol

Mike2015-07-25 20:01:55
You know, that's a fairly good reason to dislike a director. Why bother with a sequel score if most of it will be rehashing anyways?

And yes, it is surprising how wrong we tend to be about HZ's involvement on scores like this. There's more to his composing than meets the eye...or ear. lol.

Mike2015-07-25 20:08:14
And just so we're sure, John Powell will *not* be returning for KFP3, right? No way, no how?

Hybrid Soldier2015-07-25 20:21:04
Actually his departure is the reason Lorne got so much to do...

And of course Powell would NEVER EVER return for KFP 3...

NM2015-07-25 20:37:27
Thanks for the info Hybrid. The whole thing makes a lot more sense now!

Out of interest so the issue can be settled once and for all, do you know what tunes/cues HZ worked on on this one?

Hybrid Soldier2015-07-25 20:44:18
To me Shen's theme is very Hansi...

From Powell's mouth the last act is mostly Lorne (Zen Ball Master to My Son Is Alive). Actually in the cue sheet the last cue, "My Son Is Alive" (which is the very end of the movie), is the only cue credited to HZ/LB without Powell, and it's sounds quite a lot like Lorne's Harry's Arctic Heroes lol...

Ds2015-07-25 23:09:05
Does that last cue correspond with the track "My Fist Hungers For Justice"? If so, it reminds me A LOT of "My Name Is Lincoln" from The Island soundtrack...

Mike2015-07-25 23:34:51
And due to Hybrid's track postings, we know Powell was the main guy behind "Po Finds the Truth." ;)

Anonymous2015-07-25 23:39:39
so zimmer did the shen music and supervised/contributed to the project, and powell did po finds the truth and eventually left the project due to creative differences, and the ghostwriters--mostly lorne--did everything else? ;)

huge oversimplification, but that sounds like the gist of it. lol.

Mike2015-07-25 23:47:56
Well in the end, Hans' influence—since he stayed throughout the whole project—will be everywhere. Especially on the Lorne cues, we can assume he did legitimate writing to some extent (beyond the "completely Lorneish" cues like Stealth Mode). Just because an additional guy is credited doesn't have to mean Zimmer, one of the main composers, was just sitting back in a lounge chair till his assistant composer made him happy. lol.

Same goes for Powell. He worked directly on Po Finds the Truth, but even before he decided enough was enough, we can assume he had a hand in writing the entire project, especially the Dom Lewis and Paul Mounsey cues. Hybrid has pointed out before, very often when the "ghostwriters" are working on a cue, the main composer will have already written a basic version of it. So even with the new revelation about Powell, we can assume both he and Zimmer had a reasonably sizable role anyway.

Hybrid Soldier2015-07-26 00:08:34
"And due to Hybrid's track postings, we know Powell was the main guy behind "Po Finds the Truth." ;)"

Who says it's not Hans with Powell credited for KFP 1 ? -_- lol

NM2015-07-26 02:50:17
The "new" parts of "Po Finds the Truth" sound like Hans to me.

"Especially on the Lorne cues, we can assume he did legitimate writing to some extent (beyond the "completely Lorneish" cues like Stealth Mode)."

Yeah. The end of "Face to Face" sounds like Hans to me - the part where the very aggressive low brass comes in. Parts of "More cannons" do as well. "Invasion Begins" sounds like the beginning of a suite that was just plugged in. Indeed the Shen tune is in nearly every cue in various guises. It's actually prob the reason the score doesn't sound like a rehash.

It's such a shame it only exists in fragments and not as a satisfying full arrangement.

Zimson2015-07-26 09:48:08
Even though Powell did Sacred Pool of Tears for the first one, Hans wrote the theme beforehand. So, it's technically more Hans than JP anyways.
So, in conclusion until now, we can safley say Powell at least started the Mounsey tracks and Hans did Po Finds The Truth. That one always sounded like a typical unscholarly Zimmer arrangement to me btw.

Anonymous2015-07-26 14:14:03
Hybrid: "Who says it's not Hans..."

THAT explains so much. lol. I knew that track sounded Zimmerish, but wasn't gonna doubt your expertise in this area. xD Thank you!

Mike2015-07-26 14:14:24
Whoops, last post was me.

Jed2015-07-26 21:02:04
So to finally, finally put this topic to rest, the breakdown is...

1. Hans Zimmer and John Powell both did: main themes from first movie
2. Hans Zimmer did: Shen theme and Po Finds the Truth, as well as other contributions throughout, especially on cues with Lorne's name attached
3. John Powell did: some amount of contributions, probably early versions of the Paul Mounsey and Dominic Lewis cues (since those two worked with him on HTTYD), and the temp material from the first film like in Po Finds the Truth (new material in there by Zimmer, though)
4. Lorne Balfe did: several cues working with Zimmer, as well as "Stealth Mode," "Zen Ball Master," and "My Son is Alive"
5. Dominic Lewis and Paul Mounsey did arrangements for Powell

Sound right? If so, we should finally be able to calm down about whose "voice" is heard most here. It sounds like Hans and Lorne ended up doing the legwork, and Powell's sound carries over from his large contribution to the first movie.

Mike2015-07-26 21:12:26
I think, judging from all that's been said, Jed's got it. There's no doubt more to it still, but this sounds like a reasonable breakdown.

Basically, I think we can all admit that "Music by Hans Zimmer & Lorne Balfe" may have made for a somewhat more apt cover credit, with a "Themes by Hans Zimmer and John Powell" sub-credit. lol. But in the end, this is just a really fantastic score, whoever made the biggest contributions, and everyone who wrote it deserves kudos for making it that way. ;)

Anonymous2015-07-26 21:32:17
am I the only one who hears tons of zimmer all throughout daddy issues? especially with what the strings do around 2:44. sounds almost like the beckett theme haha.

Mike2015-07-26 21:39:57
No, I agree with that one...Po Finds the Truth and Daddy Issues are probably the two tracks where Zimmer's musical voice bleeds through most clearly (as well as Inner Peace, which is just a rehash from KFP1, but the woodwinds in there make me think of The Last Samurai...).

Edmund Meinerts2015-07-27 10:36:16
I just find it hard to believe that Powell had a hands-off approach to a cue like "Zen Ball Master". The first 3-4 minutes of that sound so much like authentic, fresh (fantastic!) Powell material that my brain is having a hard time reconciling the idea that it might just be Lorne Balfe. Certainly I've never heard anything else by Balfe that shows he has the capability of writing an orchestral action cue of such complexity and color.

This score hurts my head. It's worse than The Rock. :(

Hybrid Soldier2015-07-27 12:35:54
Check some of his orchestral for Directors Cuts... The kind of stuff no one ever asks him to do... lol

Mike2015-07-27 17:09:00
Yeah, this one may hurt the head, but it sure pleases the ears... lol

Anonymous reply Replies: 9 || 2015-07-02 10:21:34
Who do you guys think wrote the villain's tune, as heard in the opening track (1:43-end), and "Save Kung Fu" (2:31:2-41), Fireworks Factory (4:44-5:24), etc? Zimmer or Powell?

Edmund Meinerts2015-07-02 13:54:05
To me it sounds like a Zimmer theme, but put through a Powell arrangement/orchestration most of the time.

Anonymous2015-07-02 16:43:37
To me most of this score sounds like Balfe's, with a few Zimmer spices here and there. I get the feeling that Powell got the co-credit because of the significant amount of stuff that were carried over from the original.

Mike2015-07-02 18:01:55
I agree. Zimmer isn't heard obviously in much of this score, as has been repeatedly hashed out, but neither is Powell, if you ask me! It does seem like the additional guys did most of the writing here, albeit copiously using old themes and cues and doing so, presumably, under Powell and Zimmer's direction. I honestly don't see Zimmer *really* doing much of KFP3, either, even though his name is the main credit so far.


NM2015-07-02 20:09:15
I agree, to me the score mostly sounds like Lorne Balfe.

But I dunno, as I've said before, I don't think it's a case that Zimmer or Powell write a sketch and then sit back and drink coffee while the others do the work. I imagine it's very collaborative.

Unfortunately there's very few interviews/info about this score compared to a lot of others, which is a pity, because it's one of the best RCP collaborations. It's a really tight, well put-together, consistent, enjoyable score, and it's a shame none of the composers involved want to talk about it!

Hybrid Soldier2015-07-02 20:31:08
There aren't much interviews because the projects didn't go that well during its production. And Powell actually didn't do much.

Anonymous2015-07-02 20:47:22
Any ideas which scenes Powell actually worked on, if any?

Mike2015-07-02 20:55:11
Powell did "Po Finds the Truth," apparently. I do find it pretty funny that it seems like the two primary composers didn't have as big a role as some of the secondary ones...And yet, this score is still great!

NM2015-07-02 23:06:13

Oh? That's interesting. Was it like a "Pirates" situation where everything was rushed or a producer thing?

vced2015-07-03 02:46:28
Listen carefully to the score. Its not hard to see who did the work.

Zimmer writes his simple, strong themes like the shen one and then Balfe gives them the ornate orchestrations and Powell-esque arrangements. Simple. Like I said here months ago on the batman page. Zimmer doesn't write this style of complicated cue himself. That's not his style. He doesn't do frilly and swirls and trumpets, he does austere and basic. Enter Balfe to spice it up.

Maybe that's why people are mixing up and thinking Powell did more than he did. Zimmer tunes + Balfe arrangement and you get a decent impression. Which was pretty much Megamind as well, a mini-Powell score in parts. Balfe is a very good arranger let's give him credit.

Zimson reply Replies: 24 || 2014-03-03 15:56:53
So here's my list of what I claim to be the credits of each track. I think it's pretty split between Hans and John, and that they played equal roles in the making of the soundtrack. I have reasonings too for the choices. As I mentioned before, Lorne Balfe is Hans' long term scoring partner and it would be irrational to say that Hans' name just shows up on the cover because his themes from the first film were used here (which is wrong). As you can see Lorne was involved in 9 tracks, so I suppose Hans has written them. Paul Mounsey only worked for John Powell in the past. Dominic Lewis worked with both before KFP 2, but I think he did write for John here, since he was involved in HTTYD and he first worked with Hans on Rango which came out a few months before KFP 2.
"Inner Peace" and "Po finds the truth" are guesses, but they do sound like Hans, so he gets the credits here.

Let me hear what you think about this.

1. John Powell
2. John Powell
3. Hans Zimmer
4. John Powell
5. Hans Zimmer
6. Hans Zimmer
7. Hans Zimmer
8. Hans Zimmer
9. John Powell
10. Hans Zimmer / John Powell (First part Hans, second part John)
11. Hans Zimmer
12. Hans Zimmer / John Powell (First part Hans, second part John)
13. Hans Zimmer
14. John Powell
15. John Powell / Hans Zimmer (First half John, second half Hans)
16. Hans Zimmer

Edmund Meinerts2014-03-03 16:12:46
Completely disagree with a few of your guesses. "More Cannons" is clearly, blatantly, 100% Powell. So is "My First Hungers for Justice" (it sounds like the HTTYD flying theme). And I think all of "Zen Ball Master" is Powell as well, with the last minute or so showing some Lorne Balfe influence from Megamind. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the parts people such as yourself are labeling as "Hans" are in fact mostly Balfe.

Hans had a terrible year in 2011, and this score is incredible, which also lends to my gut feeling that Powell was the chief driving force here.

Hybrid Soldier2014-03-03 16:16:28
A terrible year ?

2 words => The Moriarty Suite, the Rango Suite, the Bane Suite (which was technically done BEFORE even Sherlock 2) ! :P

isildur2014-03-03 16:21:28
Hmm....Hans hardcore fan vs Powell hardcore fan. Interesting :D

Edmund Meinerts2014-03-03 16:48:33
Yes, a terrible year. You can't point to individual tracks and say otherwise. Yes, those cues are all good, but what about the scores themselves? Rango - incoherent. Pirates 4 - AWFUL. Sherlock 2 - a mess of random source pieces and whatnot. Bane suite doesn't count.

Zimson2014-03-03 16:54:38
I based my guesses on, let's say "empirical data". The truth is that "More Cannons" is featured on Lorne's personal website, so it can't be a "clearly, blatantly, 100% Powell", unless you are saying, Lorne's lying, lol. The second half of "Zen Ball Master" is also featured on his website.
But you're right, Lorne did play a big role here and except for "Inner Peace" and "Po Finds The Truth" you don't get much of a Zimmer vibe here.

Zimson2014-03-03 17:03:44
I guess there's no accounting for taste. Game of Shadows was the one soundtrack that made me a fan.

Edmund Meinerts2014-03-03 17:30:39
There's a part at the end of "More Cannons" that has the same Megamind rhythm you hear at the end of "Zen Ball Master", so yeah, I guess there's a bit of Balfe in there as well. But the main part from 0:00-2:11 bleeds Powell to me. Those trumpets, dude...nobody writes for brass like that in RC except Powell.

Game of Shadows is a decent score with an awful, awful album release. If I wanted to hear a Slovakian jam session I'd buy a Slovakian jam session CD.

Mike2014-03-03 17:45:04
2011 wasn't a year of terrible scores as much as terrible albums (POTC4 [lame score, too], Sherlock Holmes 2, Rango...). But then, 2012 had some lame albums, too. Last year and this year (so far), Zimmer's album releases have picked up.

Edmund Meinerts2014-03-03 17:49:09
It's true that the albums for Rango and Sherlock 2 are worse than the scores themselves. But Pirates, that one is really hard to forgive all around.

Mike2014-03-03 17:54:03
Too right. The only good thing about the POTC4 score in my opinion was the mermaid theme.

Zimson2014-03-03 17:57:42
So why would Lorne put the whole track on his website if he only has written 30 seconds of it. I agree that the similarities are there, but since Henry Jackman has written "Puss In Boots" I'm convinced that some trademarks are not just limited to one specific composer.
Btw the jam sessions only make up about 7 minutes of the soundtrack release and I do not count the track "Did you kill my wife".

Zimson2014-03-03 18:01:07
I found POTC 4 unappealing as a whole, but "Angelica" and "Palm Tree Escape" are worth a listen.

Edmund Meinerts2014-03-03 18:03:54
I can tell whether music is Powell or not. I've been listening to him obsessively over the past four years or so. I'm not sure why Lorne would put up the entire track, but I guess he didn't want to just edit out the part he did.

And as for Sherlock's not just the jam sessions (which total a lot more than 7 minutes if you include the bonus cies). There's another pointless remix, and then there's the two weird opera mutilations...and the waltz track...and the fact that the entire album is sped up like it's trying to avoid getting taken down on YouTube...gaaah.

Zimson2014-03-03 18:39:42
The opera track was basically an arrangement of Mozart's Don Giovanni with Zimmer brass technique (It is Zimmer, right?) and it was kind of messy, but still good. The remix is actually one of the better ones out there. I don't think we will get to agree with each other on this topic. :D
Btw this thread got really off-topic. Why is there no activity in the forum. It would be perfect to discuss such things.

Hybrid Soldier2014-03-03 19:09:09
It's Lorne mimicking Powell...

Stealth Mode for instance is 200% Lorne...

And the very ending of "My Fist..." is Lorne too...

And yes I can point any single track I want, because scores are basically a sum of tracks ! Quality wins over quantity... And I'm talking Zimmer tracks...

Edmund Meinerts2014-03-03 19:19:03
Stealth Mode doesn't really sound like Powell, though...I never thought that one was. I didn't know that about My Fist Hungers for Justice though.

Quality does indeed win over quantity...but when there's one or two quality tracks in amongst a messy rest of the score, that's not enough. I think that's the problem I've been having with Zimmer scores lately. He just writes a few "ideas" for a score and the rest is just repetitions, or filling in the blanks. He doesn't write to the picture anymore, he writes to concept...

Mike2014-03-03 19:24:22
Kudos to that very, very last part Edmund...if you ask me, his quality as a whole has dropped because of that. He's still a good composer, but he isn't what he used to be.

Ds2014-03-03 20:28:24
Edmund, I think the end of "My fist..." sounds more like "My name is Lincoln" from The Island. I never thought about HTTYD when listening to it.

Richard2015-03-17 02:29:45
Hybrid, you wrote "The Moriarty Suite, the Rango Suite, the Bane Suite (which was technically done BEFORE even Sherlock 2) ! :P"

THANK YOU!! SO many people overlook the Sherlock 2 score (especially the Moriarty music, which in my humble opinion is one of Hans' best themes ever) and even the Bane suite (also one of the best IMO)

Edmund argues that single tracks don't save a score - well, look at Game of Shadows. Yes, the album release was bad, but that doesn't make the score itself bad. Yes, it felt a bit erratic at times, but the movie itself IS that way - the characters are moving from place to place, and as such the styles change.

Yes yes, we all know On Stranger Tides was a disaster... but it isn't terrible, and I don't think one disastrous score makes the year terrible.

Rango was all around decent, nothing there that makes it a terrible year.

"Bane suite doesn't count"? So, you're suggesting that because one theme is good, it "doesn't count"? As Hybrid said, scores are just compilations of themes, so single tracks can make a score decent as long as the other tracks aren't terrible - bringing me to my next point,

Rises was actually pretty good, even without Bane. Bit too synthy a couple of times, but overall it's a very emotional score (even without JNH) and a majority of it IS Bane's theme. I think there's more Bane music in the film than there is Batman music, which is fine because Bane's theme was very well-written and is loved by many listeners.

This is just my opinion... I'm not trying to re-spark an old argument or anything, I just want to defend the composer and the soundtracks I cherish. I listen to Rises and Sherlock 2 quite a lot, they're two of my favorite soundtracks.

Edmund Meinerts2015-03-17 09:46:37
Even if Zimmer technically wrote Bane material in 2011, it's still for a 2012 score and so it doesn't count when discussing how good or not good his 2011 was. That's what I meant by saying it doesn't count. I'm not a massive fan of Rises but it's certainly a better score than anything Hans put out in 2011.

Again, it's hard to fairly judge Sherlock 2 with that album release, which must be one of the worst in film music history.

Richard2015-03-17 15:58:17
Ah, I see what you mean as far as the release dates.

To judge GOS, simply watch the movie :)

Edmund Meinerts2015-03-17 17:01:45
I haven't seen Game of Shadows since it first came out. I remember the score being decent in film (still not quite as good as the first one, but a three-star effort at least). Still, until a complete for that one finally emerges, I don't think I'll be able to judge it fairly. In film (under sfx etc. where you're not able to hear the details in the music) isn't enough for me.

Mike2015-03-17 19:42:21
It is indeed an awful album, but I quite enjoyed Game of Shadows in-film, personally. I actually thought it complemented the film BETTER than the first one, but that the first one was better when taken by itself.

Zimson2015-03-18 01:31:45
The complete score of game of shadows doesn't offer much more than the soundtrack. Sure, there's the wedding cue, some fine rearrangements of the main theme, also the fight scene with the assassin, but we got the Shadows suite, a few Lorne tracks and the Roma sessions were all in the movie. That's pretty much all the new ideas for this movie.

Mike reply Replies: 1 || 2015-03-15 22:57:47
I know this topic gets really, really stale...So if no one replies that's fine... :P But I'm genuinely surprised that Po Finds the Truth is a "Powell cue." I can definitely hear Powell at the very beginning and end, but the midsection/meat of it sounds totally Zimmerish, and not Powellish, to me (for the longest time I felt convinced that even if Zimmer did little else in this score, he did the majority of this cue). And interestingly, although it's apparently otherwise, the Shen theme *doesn't* sound like Zimmer to me, even though it's credited to him!

Collaboration scores like this can be fascinating, can't they?

Mike2015-03-15 23:06:39
(I guess in the end, this whole score is a co-score: so even if Powell did most of the cue, it's still entirely possible that Zimmer did the middle of it).

Anonymous reply Replies: 4 || 2014-10-25 20:08:29
this score feels a lot more cohesive than the first one. anyone else feel that way too? the first one felt like it had 2 different sounds, the Powellish stuff and the Zimmerish stuff, but this one is more "together" and has a unified sound all throughout.

Ds2014-10-25 20:50:04
Completely agree. This soundtrack album is a real pleasure to listen to, while the first one... not so much imo.

Hybrid Soldier2014-10-25 20:51:22
Well the scores are completely different, the teams & all... Exit Henry Jackman & James McKee Smith, welcome Lorne, Dom & Paul Mounsey... But yeah I agree, just like Begins sounds more collaborative than TDK...

NM2014-10-26 07:45:07
Hybrid, I'm really interested in how they put together this score. It's a great score. Do they all toss in ideas? Do some people start cues, others finish? Did Hans & John sit down and write the themes first? It'd be cool to see any detailed articles or anecdotes about it.

It's one of my favorite recent RCP scores and not a whole lot of interviews or interesting reads about it compared to, say, Man of Steel.

Zimson 2014-10-26 20:34:24
Hans said he sat down with John and someone would come up with an idea or starting to write a cue and the other one would finish it or expand it. So, they worked closely together on this series. Example from the first one: John got the basic idea for "Panda Po" and Hans added a middle part to it. I guess it's the louder part with the drums.

Zimson reply Replies: 0 || 2014-10-23 23:19:35
Interesting interview with Hans on potc 4 and kfp 2.
filmmusicmag dot com/?p=7890

Anonymous reply Replies: 0 || 2014-10-16 02:44:06
Did HZ and JP really work on Secrets of the Furious Five like the often-erroneous Wikipedia says, or was it just Henry Jackman occasionally employing their music?

Anonymous reply Replies: 0 || 2014-08-12 19:01:23
Anyone else think Hans' tomorrowland theme has a similar vibe as the end of My First Hungers for Justice (and also John Powell's music)?

Zimson reply Replies: 1 || 2014-06-24 11:19:44
Are there any confirmations regarding KFP 3 yet? JP and HZ are already credited on IMDB.

Anonymous2014-06-24 19:46:14
Don't know of anything official, but the latest issue of FilmScoreMonthly only lists John Powell as working on this one.

NM reply Replies: 2 || 2014-03-09 11:20:12
Are there any suites for this great score?

Mike2014-03-28 23:37:23
There were two for the previous one (Panda Po and Oogway Ascends), but I don't think this one has any. Honestly, I find that scores NOT based entirely on suites (this one, or Batman Begins) turn out better, with more varied and interesting cues, but that's just me. :)

NM2014-03-29 23:52:01
Oh don't get me wrong I love this score, almost every minute of it. It's engaging, inventive, addictive, fun and in my opinion better than the first one.

But I like hearing suite presentations of themes. It makes it easier to appreciate how they're woven into the score. Imagine how awesome all of the elements of the Shen theme would sound as a proper fleshed out suite of music.

Mike reply Replies: 4 || 2014-03-28 23:42:30
It really amazes me I used to dislike this score. Now, the more I listen to it, the more I find things to like about it.

Edmund Meinerts2014-03-29 01:21:05
How could anyone dislike this score? Whether it's Powell here or Zimmer there, the least we can do is agree that it's 100% awesome. :D

Ds2014-03-29 01:30:58
Edmund you're totally right. But I remember that the first 2-3 listens were a bit hard for me, because there's just so many ideas, themes and craziness that it may be difficult to digest...

Mike2014-03-29 02:42:14
Well, Edmund, I ask myself the same question. lol.

RealFfingMusic2014-03-29 14:49:18
Me too. It makes me feel stupid now when I remember that I didn't like this in 2012. :)

Anonymous reply Replies: 0 || 2014-03-28 23:34:04
5:09-5:26 in Fireworks Factory is awesome!

minde15 reply Replies: 2 || 2014-03-03 21:24:19
All these tracks are like a wonder of wonder music. :)
Hast absolut wahnsinnig gemacht, Hans.

Edmund Meinerts2014-03-03 22:04:44
Hat der John noch besser gemacht, find ich. ;)

Zimson2014-03-03 22:34:27
Hans hat auch gute Arbeit geleistet. :D Mehr Deutsche hier als Amerikaner, lol.

Ds reply Replies: 5 || 2014-02-09 20:36:34
Holy crap, I just noticed this wonderfully rich score has a 2/5 rating!? WTF happened to people's ears??

Mike2014-02-09 20:38:46
They fell off because the score was TOO wonderfully rich, and they couldn't judge the rest of it well, and gave it a 2/5. ;)

Ds2014-02-09 20:47:33
Haha, you must be right. I have to admit it took me quite a few listens to fully enjoy it!

Edmund Meinerts2014-02-09 21:18:32
Never trust the ratings at this website. Never.

isildur2014-02-10 01:33:21
Just listening to "Bull Run" and missing Powell so much. This track is so wonderfully insane and absolute fun.

Yeah. Here, it would be best if one would read the comments below rather than seeing the rating. Even though we see different kind of opinions about that particular score one can get an idea on what to expect from the score.

MacArthur2014-02-10 06:12:21
The Thing is that Zimmer is capable of the low pitch perc. and the other stuff. there wher some other elements that sounded like Zimmer in the score. I'd have to listen to it again to tell you.

Zimson reply Replies: 2 || 2013-09-21 23:34:25
Is it safe to say that everything that Lorne Balfe worked on is by Zimmer?
I suppose Paul Mounsey only worked with Powell here. He gets credited for additional music on several Powell projects and has never worked on a Zimmer project.
Dominic Lewis has worked for both composers so far, so it's harder to tell. He currently works at Remote Control Prod. while Powell has his own studio now. ( I guess he worked for both on this score.

Now, that's interesting. f-tears/

A composer/arranger named Sebastian Wolff put some music sheets from the first movie online. He credited Zimmer for Sacred Pool of Tears, Oogway Ascends and Zimmer and Powell for Panda Po.
You can see a Dreamsworks copyright on the bottom of the sheets. I would take this as a serious source.
Since some themes in Sacred Pool of Tears were used in Save Kung Fu and Po Finds the Truth, I suppose these tracks are by Zimmer.

Any thoughts, criticism on this?

Mike2013-09-22 14:33:35
My criticism is of the following: since some themes in Sacred Pool of Tears were used in Save Kung Fu and Po Finds the Truth, I suppose these tracks are by Zimmer.

They do sound like Zimmer, you're right, especially Po Finds the Truth (I have every confidence Zimmer did that one). But the KFP scores are full of Powell using Zimmer's music and vice versa, so it's impossible to say for sure. Batman Begins was the same way. If Hybrid Soldier is at all correct, James Newton Howard did several of the cues which really sound like Zimmer and use his themes.

Zimson2013-09-23 17:06:14
"If Hybrid Soldier is at all correct, James Newton Howard did several of the cues which really sound like Zimmer and use his themes."

I agree on that, same with TDK. You think that it's definitely Howard but suddenly you hear the Joker theme in the background. I guess they want you to be confused. ;)

Anon-e-missing reply Replies: 0 || 2013-05-17 20:56:07
About 4:05 onward in Po Finds the Truth is amazing!!! :D

Indiana reply Replies: 3 || 2011-05-03 10:43:37
An another remix !!!!!

Andrew2011-05-03 15:22:36
Except that this time nobody can complain about it.

Indiana2011-05-03 16:52:53
Sure but it's a kind of mode for Zimmer these times.

Mike2013-01-05 04:56:47
Hey, at least there weren't six remixes (I'm looking at you, On Stranger Tides). :P

GR7 reply Replies: 2 || 2012-11-27 17:01:14
No matter who did what, Zen Ball Master is a masterpiece ! Cant stop listening to it !
This whole album is a very good team work and its very interesting to feel each composer influence in the cues like some of you already did !

GR72012-11-27 17:22:21
And by the way, about the possible confusion between John Powell and Lorne Balfe contributions to this score, I just noticed how the end of the cue "freedom fighter" (from 1'40) of Balfe's Assassins Creed III OST sounds like Jason Bourne...

GR72012-11-27 17:25:44
Sorry for multiple post , I meant (from 1'50)
Ti sum up, sometimes it maybe hard to tell precisely which composer is responsible for a part of a team work....

MGDrone reply Replies: 11 || 2012-10-24 20:31:36
I know this topic has been beaten to death, but some time has passed and maybe Hybrid can confirm this:

I am 99.9% sure that Hans wrote Shen's theme and that John wrote the lovely theme we hear at the very end (My Son Is Alive) and focused on developing Po's theme. I'm not concerned with who did which cue, we have that information (although it's still a bit vague and confusing). I'm talking about themes. I'm fully convinced that Powell wrote that last theme although the cue sheet credits Hans and Lorne.

MGDrone2012-10-24 20:38:02
Btw, the other 0.1% is a hunch that tells me that Powell might have been involved in Shen's theme as well. But it sounds competely like a Zimmer theme to my ears :)

Edmund Meinerts2012-10-25 00:18:38
There are few composers I'm more familiar with than Zimmer and Powell - I've heard the scores from at least 80% of the former's films and probably more like 90% of the latter's - but I'm just basing this on my own opinions, so take it with a grain of salt:

I'm fairly sure that Zimmer had very, very little to do with this score. As you say, he may have written Shen's theme, but the way it is orchestrated, and this goes for the entire score, is pure Powell in style. Like take the cue "Invasion Begins" - the percussion writing in that track is a trademark of Powell's. In fact, the only parts of the score I can point to and definitively say that I hear a voice other than Powell's are the ends of "More Cannons" and "Zen Ball Master", both of which reprise the 7/8 action meter from Megamind. But that, to me, seems more indicative of a Lorne Balfe contribution than a Zimmer one (as I get the impression from Megamind that Zimmer wrote the themes in "Giant Blue Head" and "Roxanne", and Balfe the rest of the cues and underscore). "My Son is Alive", or the end of "My Fist Hungers for Justice", is definitely a Powell contribution because it's basically the flying theme from How to Train Your Dragon.

But mostly the reason I say it's Powell is because it's orchestrally dynamic in a way that few Zimmer scores have ever really been. In general, Powell's orchestral writing tends to be far more complex than Zimmer's (which isn't a criticism of Zimmer or anything, but you can't deny that his orchestral writing is usually pretty straightforward - and there's a ton of woodwinds in this score and other recent Powell scores but hardly any recent Zimmer scores).

I think the reason the cue sheets credit Zimmer is because he was probably involved with writing the themes from the first KFP and, as you say, maybe also Shen's from this one. But I'd say that the actual writing of the cues is down to Powell on this one. Also note that other than Balfe, Dom Lewis and Paul Mounsey are regular additional music contributors to Powell scores - another clue.

Just my two (or more) cents. I love this score to pieces, hence why I've given it so much thought. :)

MGDrone2012-10-25 03:50:47
I agree wholeheartedly on some points. I think it was Powell's decision to make the orchestration of this score more dynamic. Although, I believe Hans incorporated the majority of the ethnic instruments. I also believe the cue sheet is, well, misleading. I trust my gut and instinct more than the cue sheet most of the time because, as we've agreed, the My Son Is Alive cue is definitely Powell. I also believe Powell took more liberty with using Hans' themes whereas I can't point to a specific cue where it sounds like Zimmer handled Powell's themes.

What I can't agree with is the notion that Zimmer took a back seat here. There are so many moments in the score where I can safely say, that's Zimmer. Some of the best moments of the score, and you can't disagree with me here, are thanks to Zimmer's lovely themes. If Zimmer wrote Shen's theme, and I do believe he did, then he wrote a theme suite. Sticking to tradition that theme suite must be around (a mere guess of mine) seven minutes. It could be up to twelve or sixteen minutes, idk. But most likely, if such a theme suite exists most of the statements we hear of Shen's theme are taken from and inspired by that theme suite.

Here's why I'm so confident that Shen's theme is 100% Zimmer. It's greatly influenced by many of Zimmer's themes. Listen to The Pirate Lord of Singapore, Tribal War from Black Hawk Down, and Air Battle from the Pearl Harbor bootleg. I can name a few other influences: Sherlock Holmes, Rango, The Last Samurai, etc. The rest is just my intuition. From the first moment I heard this score I identified Shen's theme and all of its variations as Zimmer's work and contribution.

Apart from the fact that Zimmer's themes dominate a lot of the score, there are many cues that I believe are 100% his. I'd like to name them all, but I would need some time to listen to the score and jot them down. I believe, and this is just a hunch again, that Hans contributed more of the Lalo Schifrin style to this score (mainly heard in Gongmen Jail).

You know, it's pretty interesting how our hunches lead us in different directions. I must confess that I haven't listened to nearly as many of Powell's scores as I have Zimmer's. But I think I've gained enough intuition from listening to Zimmer's scores (I've listened to the vast majority of them) to know, as far as I'm concerned, what he wrote. I think this score is pretty much a split 50/50 as far as who did what.

Mike2012-10-25 04:53:48
Not to interrupt, but "Po Finds the Truth" and "Inner Peace" sound completely Zimmer to me.

MGDrone2012-10-25 05:11:53
I totally agree. I think Inner Peace is mostly Zimmer except for the last thirty seconds or so. I think Powell's contribution in Po Finds The Truth is the theme that plays from 0:18 to 0:40, and the rest sounds like Zimmer to me. I also think Zimmer contributed the most in Daddy Issues, Stealth Mode, Gongmen Jail, Po and Shen/Face to Face, and More Cannons

Mike2012-10-25 05:16:09
I'd also like to say that to me, the first film sounds mostly like Hans Zimmer, the second film sounds mostly like John Powell. I think that makes sense, too, because maybe the second movie was a sort of "preparation" for Powell's solo effort, How to Train Your Dragon.

Mike2012-10-25 05:20:05
Forget that. KFP2 came after.

Bioscope2012-10-25 08:02:06
To figure out the two sounds, Zimmer is more Eastern 'Prokoviev' and Powell is the Eastern 'Ron Goodwin' with the brass trills.

aldan2012-10-25 13:56:55
I think it's mostly Powell

Shen's theme's writing is so dynamic where Tai Lung theme is more generic, the latter's style is usually Zimmer's with its brasses( mostly trombone), the former's is always Powell's with its incorporation of many strings and brasses, complemented with woodwinds with its flowing-kind-of notes.

We can see here that Powell takes the lion share, starts with Shen's theme, and then "three masters" theme, again dynamic (the trademark is the usual trumpets background), and then goes again with "rickshaw chase", the beginning is so Powell that we usually hear, and also the timpani and dynamic style, with returning cues from "the bridge" in the first film which i believe was written by Powell, and of course "how to train your dragon" theme in the end (the use of the french horn is obvious), etc.

I think Zimmer name placement is mostly because some of the first movie's theme.

But the real question; Where is powell in 2013, no credits of him whatsoever???

Edmund Meinerts2012-10-25 15:02:41
@MGDrone: Thanks for the reply! But there are certain points I disagree with. For one, I don't think Zimmer wrote a theme suite for Shen's theme...if he did, then why isn't it on the album? Zimmer usually hides his theme suites on the album somewhere (not with Dark Knight Rises, but they emerged eventually). But because it's a relatively short theme, I think that even if he did write it (which is very possible), he left the arrangement and development and orchestration of it to Powell and co. So he may have written the notes down at the conceptual stages, but I think it's Powell who took that theme and applied it on a cue-by-cue basis. Hence, I give him more credit for it as it appears on the album and in the film.

Also, let me just run quickly through the cues you claimed were Zimmer's:

"Inner Peace". As you say, the last 30 seconds are most definitely Powell's, sounds a lot like Shrek. The beginning of the cue, with the flute puffs, could be Zimmer (sounds like Last Samurai woodwind work). As for the rest of it, even if it is Zimmer, it's basically just a carbon copy of "Sacred Pool of Tears" from the first score - so it isn't evidence for new Zimmer writing on this score either!

"Po Finds the Truth". Yeah, a good Zimmer-candidate. It's one of the cues I don't listen to as often (in fact, that goes for many of the tracks you listed! Maybe that's just because I enjoy Powell's recent work more than Zimmer's). And again it contains a lot of quotes from "Sacred Pool of Tears". BUT the end, the last minute or so, is 100% Powell - the fast woodwind runs, the style of the percussion, the trumpets at 4:41. But I think you found one of the more co-composed tracks in the score. As is "Po and Shen/Face to Face", but again, I think Powell at least did the percussion for that cue. And the second half is mostly Powell to me - the playful moments, and then the vibrant action cue in the second half.

"Stealth Mode" and "Gongmen Jail". Kind of hard to tell. These are two of the sillier tracks in the score. For the former I'd make the case for Powell because of the dynamic flute and percussion writing (kind of a Horton Hears a Who style). In general I think they're closer to Powell's long back catalog of animated writing, but I wouldn't bet my life on that.

"More Cannons", though, is DEFINITELY Powell. It's got the sort of frantic fast-paced but light orchestral writing I associate with him, and none of the Zimmer heaviness. Just check out the fast string runs and brass fanfares that run all over it. And the percussive undercurrent. And the almost James Bond-like slurring of the brass (which there's much more of in Zen Ball Master) is something Powell's done in the past (Paycheck, Hancock) whereas Zimmer's brass sound is heavier, usually overdubbed with synth samples for extra power (and you can hear that brass sound in the first KFP in eg. "The Bridge", but not in KFP2). But as I said earlier, the last 30 seconds I think are Lorne Balfe's Megamind influence. Zimmer had nothing to do with that track IMO.

@alden, I agree with you. I think Zimmer maybe wrote the basis of Shen's theme and perhaps contributed to maybe 5-10 minutes of the album tops. As for Powell, I heard that he's not taking on as many assignments these days because he wants to spend more time with his son. I don't think he has anything planned for next year, and in 2014 he has HTTYD 2 and The Good Dinosaur (Pixar movie). I'm really excited for those two projects because I think they'll lead to better scores than the more silly movies like Ice Age 4, The Lorax and Happy Feet Two. But it'll be a long time to wait!

Hybrid Soldier2012-10-25 16:58:27
Mounsey & Lewis arranged cues that were Powell's charge.

Lorne did the rest. Stealth Mode is pure LB, and the very end of the movie, the cue "My Son Is Alive" credited to Hans & Lorne indeed has a Powell vibe, but above all is sounds a lot like Harry's Arctic Heroes' finale by Lorne...

Shen's theme definitely sounds HZ/LB to me.

Also check Lorne's cues for the short film KFP Secrets Of The Masters on his website, it's also a good indication. ;)

Shifu reply Replies: 1 || 2012-06-14 20:04:59
Expanded Score: Available Nowhere ;)

01. Prologue (2:32)
02. Prologue (Alt.) (2:32)
03. Thirty-Eight Bean Buns! (0:59)
04. Thirty-Eight Bean Buns! (Alt.) (1:10)
05. Master Shifu (1:57)
06. Master Shifu (Alt.) (0:34)
07. Attack (3:53)
08. Attack (Alt.) (3:07)
09. Who am I? (3:28)
10. Shen in Gongmen (2:34)
11. Shen in Gongmen (Alt.) (2:16)
12. Destroy Weapon! (2:36)
13. Come On Guys Let's Go (1:19)
14. Come On Guys Let's Go (Alt.) (1:19)
15. Dream (1:25)
16. I'm...Training (0:20)
17. Gongmen City (1:51)
18. Gongmen City (Alt.) (2:00)
19. Future (2:04)
20. Future (Alt.) (1:40)
21. Find this Panda (0:43)
22. Stealth Mode (2:34)
23.Stealth Mode (Alt.) (2:28)
24. Fight (1:27)
25. Fight (Alt.) (1:27)
26. In Gongmen Jail (1:27)
27. In Gongmen Jail (Alt.) (1:27)
28. Pursuits on Carts (2:29)
29. Pursuits on Carts (Alt.) (2:29)
30. We Surrender! (1:20)
31. We Surrender! (Alt.) (1:20)
32. Keep Moving (0:52)
33. Keep Moving (Alt.) (0:52)
34. Weapon (1:32)
35. Why Are We Laughing? (0:30)
36. Fear The Bug (1:36)
37. Fear The Bug (Alt.) (1:39)
38. Run, Run, Little Panda! (2:10)
39. Happy New Year, Sir (0:55)
40. Happy New Year, Sir (Alt.) (0:55)
41. You're Staying Here (0:28)
42. Look, I'm Going (0:52)
43. Escape of Po (3:20)
44. Escape of Po (Alt.) (3:20)
45. You locking for Me (1:47)
46. You locking for Me (Alt. (1:47)
47. The Shot (1:21)
48. The Shot (Alt.) (1:31)
49. The Truth (4:42)
50. The Truth (Alt.) (4:42)
51. What is That? (2:14)
52. What is That? (Alt.) (2:13)
53. Disc of Destruction (0:12)
54. Take Aim! (3:15)
55. Take Aim! (Alt.) (3:15)
56. Let Finish This (1:17)
57. Let Finish This (Alt.) (1:17)
58. Skadoosh (2:12)
59. Skadoosh (Alt.) (2:12)
60. Shen's End (1:10)
61. Father of Po (3:48)
62. Father of Po (Alt.) (3:48)
63. End Credits (8:40)
64. End Credits (Orchestral) (8:40)

Mr. Fate2012-06-15 00:26:40
Thanks, Shit-u!

Zaralith reply Replies: 1 || 2012-05-29 05:58:40
So, why is it exactly that the soundtrack is missing a few songs from the movie? I don't believe I ever found out.

Mr. Fate2012-05-29 20:27:59
Just scroll down this first page a bit and read any and all posts made by Sad Fan and the other people who were helping him to understand why some of the music is missing.

Hybrid Soldier reply Replies: 12 || 2012-01-23 13:20:47
Let's get back to something more... related to the score : the complete "score credits" given by ASCAP :

Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Paul Mounsey
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Paul Mounsey
Hans Zimmer, John Powell
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Dominic Lewis
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Paul Mounsey
Hans Zimmer, John Powell
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Paul Mounsey
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Paul Mounsey
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Paul Mounsey
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Dominic Lewis
Hans Zimmer, John Powell
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Dominic Lewis
Hans Zimmer, John Powell
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Dominic Lewis
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Junkie XL
Hans Zimmer, John Powell


Adrian2012-01-23 21:18:40
Great you dug this up!
Although I am not sure you should credit that Dutch dude :P

Sad Fan2012-01-24 19:38:19
Now it's just getting confusing. Notice "Wolf Attack" and "Musicians Village" are 2 separate entities. Which means....what? And where did you get this? I am so confused!

Sad Fan2012-01-24 19:41:12
Does this mean there SHOULD be or IS GOING TO BE a "Complete" score? Can someone shed some light on this?

Mycroft2012-01-24 22:38:03
I can shed some light on this. It's only a track list. The composers registered the track titles on ASCAP. That doesn't mean that something is going to "leak".

@Adrian: it's not like Hybrid has any control over the credits for who did what. He just posted this list as he saw it from ASCAP.

Sad Fan2012-01-24 23:08:30
Can't hurt to hope!

Mr. Charles2012-01-24 23:37:26
Have you guys taken into consideration that it wasn't the real Hybrid Soldier who posted this? I have never known him to post ASCAP track lists, but other people have. What Hybrid does is actually edit the official track list at the top of the page. Plus, he usually leaves some kind of smiley at the end of his sentence. I'm not talking about ";)", it's usually something different. Unless Hybrid actually comes here and says it was him, I don't believe he posted this list.

Zaralith2012-01-25 01:39:51
Who is the "real" Hybrid Soldier?

Hybrid Soldier2012-01-25 12:18:44
Interesting concept Mr. Charles ! Who is who ! Sounds like a David Lynch movie... haha

Anyway the best way to prove I am who I am is : how the hell did I detail who did what on the CD page above if I'm not me ?

Oh and I posted it here cause I thought it might interest people (I mean, it's right ?). I usually did this on the forum, but who would see it ? :O

Lorne is behind My Son Is Alive, best cue of the score (last part of My Fist Hungers For Justice) : no surprise here ! ;)

Bondo2012-01-25 13:08:16
Re: Zaralith

If you don't believe him, check ASCAP yourself :P

Adam2012-03-18 00:54:43
could someone help me out here i have a 820 page full orchestral score for this and its so hard to pick out songs from all the damn cues could someone post a list of all cues starting with 1m1 and so on. i would really appreciate it

Anonymous2012-03-18 02:10:07
Adam, I don't think anyone knows the slate numbers and the cues....

Adam2012-03-20 23:26:32
( srry posted wrong comment above) oh, alright guess i will have to figure it out. yay for me :) doesnt help the songs are actually suites cut up of cues from all parts of the full score grrr

Edmund Meinerts reply Replies: 2 || 2012-02-27 13:40:10

Could you please list these so-called "most known John Powell scores that suck"? Because the only scores by Powell that I'd apply that harsh word to are Bourne Identity (and that's only because the sequels did the same thing so much better) and Jumper. The Bourne sequels, X-Men, Hancock, Paycheck and every single damned animated score he's ever done are all awesome. Just because he can actually use an orchestra properly (unlike his former mentor lately)...

Putting the composer of How to Train Your Dragon below Örvarsson and Balfe is beyond ludicrous. Then again, you seem to actually think Badelt was responsible for most of PotC (news check: it was Zimmer's themes and Badelt was only one of a dozen or so arrangers; his name's on the front for contractual reasons), so perhaps I shouldn't be taking you so seriously.

Mr. Fate2012-02-27 14:28:13
Didn't you read the whole thing? He said: "this is my opinion so it's not personal". People are entitled to their own personal opinions and they shouldn't have to explain themselves all the time.

Also, @Snake: who the heck are you responding to? You know you can hit "reply to topic" or whatever it says and respond to the conversation already in progress started by zeroman. Otherwise, you're out in the middle of nowhere and it looks like you're responding to a brick wall. And one last thing: did you really make three responses to zeroman's question? Why?

Adam2012-03-20 23:25:05
oh, alright guess i will have to figure it out. yay for me :) doesnt help the songs are actually suites cut up of cues from all parts of the full score grrr

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Kung Fu Panda 2 soundtrack - Hans Zimmer - John Powell 2011