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And I can tell you Hans brought the matter to the very head of Disney Music... Everyone seems game to release it, just need to work out some technicalities...He mentions the Dark Phoenix second CD here. 20:33 onwards.<br><br>https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=mHmKZbUZiIA<br><br>"I did a film recently that got away, but we wrote 16 hours of music. We're actually fighting to get another CD released because the film didn't do anything, just to have it out there. Because you can't use again in something else, so it'd be nice to have it out there. So that it doesn't disappear into a rubbish bin".Life's Not Fair first part is similar > Tears of the Sun - Yekeleni Part 1 lolAny idea on the name of the song from the trailer?Honestly the biggest problem with this new version for me is the lack of new variants of the themes. They mostly just repeat verbatim Hans' original ideas with little to no innovation or changes made most of the time. <br><br>It also doesn't help that cues that did have wonderful variations such as "Nala Attacks", and "Nala & Simba" have been shortened to mostly cut them out. The worst cut being  for the ending to "Mufasa's Ghost" which originally peaked the emotion with that lovely variation of Simba/The One True King theme transitioning into the Pride Rock theme, all of which is absent now.
The comic con trailer for Season 3 looks excellent.<br><br>Really looking forward to next season & score.<br><br>I saw some early 1900 world. (One of the other parks?) Hope Djawadi does something cool with that.<br><br>Very excitedAfter Original Score<br><br>Tracklist:<br>1. Opening (1:33)<br>2. Class Start (0:51)<br>3. Tessa Meets Hardin (1:40)<br>4. Hardin in the Cafe (0:47)<br>5. Party Kiss (1:10)<br>6. Text in Bed (1:30)<br>7. Sotto’s Class (1:08)<br>8. The Lake Kiss (4:18)<br>9. Touched on the Dock (1:46)<br>10. What Are You Dreaming About (0:37)<br>11. Pool House (2:45)<br>12. Pool (2:18)<br>13. Noah Breakup (1:24)<br>14. You’re My Drug (1:25)<br>15. Planetarium (0:57)<br>16. Apartment (1:23)<br>17. Hardin’s Story (1:44)<br>18. Bath (1:02)<br>19. The Truth Comes Out (2:00)<br>20. Going Home (1:21)<br>21. The Letter (2:46)<br>22. After – Coffee Shop (1:29)<br>23. Poolside alt (2:26)<br>24. Main Theme (2:20)<br><br>Hybrid this score is good?It's indeed a shame so much mhsic is missing from the official album.<br><br>Love to hear more!how about credits for the LLL set then?I'm just curious why there's so much dead air in the FYC tracks. Cues like "Shut it Down", "Burton Visits Prime Minister", or "Megatron has Squeeks" just have nothing to them! <br><br>No themes to speak of besides one horn blast of "Quintessa", no interesting melodies, or rhythm, just dead electronics and weak-feeling drums and strings which really doesn't fit in with the series' style. Not even the fourth movies'.
Thanks Hybrid for explaining that. Makes more sense now.Yes it is because the FYC is horrible... The OST is what Steve & co wrote. The FYC is what came out of the Music Editing Factory, which I don't dig at all. Lots of micro edits & transformations Steve probably didn't even hear... lol<br><br>Real final mixes would look like the OST, not like the FYC...You gotta realize one thing, this score is US recorded so every new 15 min of score you release, you gotta pay back reuse fees. So it's very complicated & costy and that's why they released "only" 15 min of extra score.<br><br>If it was recorded in the UK, they could have released 2 hours of bonus tracks it wouldn't have cost anything more... :)<br><br>As for a chrono order, since all cues are mixed together in different tracks in the OST, it gets complicated... It works like that :<br><br>ARTHUR => Theme Suite + 5m30 + 1m05<br>KINGDOM OF ATLANTIS => 3m20-21<br>IT WASN'T MEANT TO BE => 1m01 + 1m04B<br>ATLANTEAN SOLDIERS => Theme Suite + 5m33 + 2m12<br>WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? => Theme Suite<br>THE LEGEND OF ATLAN => 6m39 + 4m23<br>SWIMMING LESSONS => 3m19 + 3m19B + 3m19C<br>THE BLACK MANTA => Theme Suite + 9m69<br>WHAT COULD BE GREATER THAN A KING? => 7m54 + 7m55 + 7m55A<br>PERMISSION TO COME ABOARD => 9m64 + 2m07<br>SUITED AND BOOTED => 8m57 + 8m59<br>BETWEEN LAND AND SEA => 7m51 + 8m61<br>HE COMMANDS THE SEA => 8m60 + 9m65<br>MAP IN A BOTTLE => 6m42 + 8m56<br>THE RING OF FIRE => 5m29 + 8m62<br>REUNITED => 9m68<br>TRENCH ENGAGED => 7m52<br>MERA MONTAGE => 6m43B + 6m48<br>HOME INVASION => 1m04 + 3m15<br>SAVING POPS => 3m18<br>AHAB WAVES => 3m17 + 2m06B<br>ASK THE SEA => 2m08B<br>OBLIGATION => 5m32<br>DUNES => 5m37-38Heitor Pereira, Satnam Ramgotra and Richard Harvey are credited musiciansSounds like a Zimmer version of the Top Gun Anthem to me. Whoever did it, it works!
me who seldom watch any of these superhero movies and remakes went and saw the new aladdin last weekend.<br><br>based on my own experience of that remake i have come to the conclusion that maybe some of the reviewers are stuck-up and not open-minded? i did enjoy the new takes on some of the songs. the new movie felt like that. a new different movie to me. <br><br>i decided that i will go and watch these movies for myself now. and i would not watch (or listen to original scores) in advance to build up expectation. i will go and enjoy my time and the songs.<br><br>that's all &#175;\_(&#12484;)_/&#175; you can't please everyone.To be honest. I love the bonus score tracks, nut those remixes are a wazte of disc soace in my opinion. I would've rather have 20 extra minutes of score.<br><br>Let the Complete Score come!For everyone that's heard it, is the Deluxe Edition worth a double dip?@Hybrid is this the combination of FYC promotional score + official release by LLL?Use your hybrid skills to unravel the mysteries of the score.
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Hans ZimmerJames Newton HowardRamin DjawadiMel Wesson
ComposerComposerAdditional MusicAdditional Music
Batman Begins (Expanded Score)
Label: Unofficial Release
Length: 177'38
HZimmer.com rating:        5/5
Fans rating:     rate at 1 out of 5 rate at 2 out of 5 rate at 3 out of 5 rate at 4 out of 5 rate at 5 out of 5   2/5 (10091 votes)
  1. Batman Titles (0:51)
  2. Young Bruce Falls (1:49)
  3. Prison Nightmare (1:01)
  4. Meeting Ducard (1:57)
  5. The Long Walk (2:19)
  6. Monastery (2:45)
  7. Father To The Rescue (2:12)
  8. Bruce’s Discomfort (0:37)
  9. Mugging (Part 1) (1:18)
  10. Mugging (Part 2) (2:50)
  11. Training (2:50)
  12. Campfire (3:27)
  13. Courthouse (Part 1) (2:39)
  14. Your System Is Broken (0:56)
  15. Meeting Falcone (3:08)
  16. Decision (2:31)
  17. Hide In The Dark (2:59)
  18. Initiation Into League (2:31)
  19. Temple Fight (4:05)
  20. Return To Gotham (0:51)
  21. Crane Warns Rachel (Part 1) (0:59)
  22. Crane Warns Rachel (Part 2) (1:14)
  23. The Bat Cave (2:57)
  24. Wayne Enterprises (1:24)
  25. Prototypes (1:41)
  26. Preparing Equipment (1:49)
  27. Why Bats (2:34)
  28. Dockyard Ambush (Part 1) (2:51)
  29. Dockyard Ambush (Part 2) (0:29)
  30. Rachel Attacked (2:24)
  31. Microwave Stolen (1:24)
  32. Meeting Rachel (1:37)
  33. Crane’s Mask (0:44)
  34. Gordon At Home (1:27)
  35. Batman On Fire (2:31)
  36. Finders Keepers (Part 1) (0:52)
  37. Finders Keepers (Part 2) (0:56)
  38. Fox Is Fired (1:11)
  39. Making Medicine (4:08)
  40. Fight In Crane’s Lab (Part 1) (4:44)
  41. Fight In Crane’s Lab (Part 2) (0:26)
  42. Fight In Crane’s Lab (Part 3) (0:45)
  43. Backup (1:34)
  44. Batmobile Chase (5:01)
  45. Rachel In Bat Cave (1:26)
  46. Your Father’s Name (0:55)
  47. Crane Interrogated (0:33)
  48. Ducard Appears (1:08)
  49. Ducard & Gotham’s Fate (3:30)
  50. Bruce Left For Dead (3:14)
  51. Antidote (3:32)
  52. Batman Arrives (2:30)
  53. Rescue Rachel (2:55)
  54. Final Confrontation (1:19)
  55. Train Fight (Part 1) (1:59)
  56. Train Fight (Part 2) (1:23)
  57. Danger Over (0:52)
  58. Surveying The Ruins (3:19)
  59. Gordon Says Thanks (1:51)
  60. End Credits (3:30)
  61. Ra’s Al Ghul Suite (7:15)
  62. Batman Theme (3:16)
  63. Prison Nightmare (Alternate Mix) (1:01)
  64. Monastery (Alternate Mix) (2:45)
  65. Father To The Rescue (Alternate Mix) (2:12)
  66. Mugging (Part 1) (Alternate Mix) (1:06)
  67. Mugging (Part 2) (Alternate Mix) (2:50)
  68. Training (Alternate Mix 1) (2:53)
  69. Training (Alternate Mix 2) (2:49)
  70. Campfire (Alternate Mix 1) (3:27)
  71. Campfire (Alternate Mix 2) (3:27)
  72. Your System Is Broken (Alternate Mix) (0:56)
  73. Meeting Falcone (Alternate Mix) (3:09)
  74. Decision (Alternate Mix) (2:31)
  75. Crane Warns Rachel (Part 1) (Alternate Mix) (0:58)
  76. Crane Warns Rachel (Part 2) (Alternate Mix) (1:14)
  77. Preparing Equipment (Alternate Mix) (1:54)
  78. Why Bats? (Alternate) (2:33)
  79. Batman On Fire (Alternate) (2:28)
  80. Batmobile Chase (Alternate Mix) (4:51)
  81. Gordon Says Thanks (Alternate Mix) (1:51)
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Hybrid Soldier reply Replies: 5 || 2019-04-04 00:26:56
Soooo ok let's dive into the big post... As I said before, it's not correct science, more like a tentative analysis based on facts & thoughts... But if it can help some curious people... :P

Let's start with the suites (the suites we KNOW of, probably a few more were written) :

HERO THEME
- Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard
Mostly Hans in there, but there's something very clever at 2:21, as you have the HZ theme (the one that mostly vanished in the 2 other films, except in choir boy mode and the 2 "Final Confrontations" with Joker & Talia) played with the brass, intertwined with a JNH theme played by the strings.

RA’S AL GHUL SUITE
- Hans Zimmer, Ramin Djawadi
The first 3 minutes is something Ramin Djawadi wrote, jamming with Martin Tillman's cello. At (3:02) starts a Hans piece. Source ? Hans himself.

So now the score. I give credit to Mel where it's "most obvious" cues he handled, but he's virtually everywhere in that score.

OPENING TITLES
- Mel Wesson
Pure Mel here, batflaps & co.

YOUNG BRUCE FALLS
- Hans Zimmer
Infamous ostinato / 2 notes motif.

PRISON NIGHTMARE
- Hans Zimmer
First appearance of a subtheme (aka "Ice" theme) that'll become the main theme of TDK & TDKR.

MEETING DUCARD
- Ramin Djawadi
First part of the Ra's suite.

THE LONG WALK
- Hans Zimmer
Reprise of Young Bruce Falls.

MONASTERY
- Mel Wesson, Hans Zimmer
Ambient & percs, definitely Mel, brief use of HZ's 2 notes motif at (2:06)

FATHER TO THE RESCUE
- James Newton Howard
All good things Bruce Wayne (linked to his family, Rachel...) by JNH introduced here

BRUCE’S DISCOMFORT
- Mel Wesson
Dark ambient, Mel.

MUGGING (PART 1)
- Mel Wesson
Dark ambient, Mel again.

MUGGING (PART 2) - GORDON COMFORTS BRUCE
- Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard
First tricky cue, includes HZ themes (0:06) & (1:11) & JNH (1:58). The cue tends to JNH's style but is in fact closer to a "classy" HZ. So... Hans. Could be Ramin that just blended the two.

TRAINING
- Hans Zimmer, Ramin Djawadi
Second apparition of the "Ice" theme. Cue was co-written by Ramin, that's a fact.

CAMPFIRE - BRUCE GOES HOME
- James Newton Howard, Hans Zimmer
Cue is definitely JNH, brief use of HZ's Ra's theme at (0:37).

COURTHOUSE (PART 1)
- James Newton Howard, Hans Zimmer
Cue is again JNH, using a bunch of HZ things (the beginning choir & the motif from the Hero Theme at (1:53)).

COURTHOUSE (PART 2) (MISSING CUE)
- James Newton Howard, Mel Wesson
Very cool missing cue, starting with Mel’s movie intro and going to a very dark JNH arrangement of his own Father To The Rescue.

YOUR SYSTEM IS BROKEN
- Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard
That's more Hans, but uses a James motif at (0:26), which is a different pitch version of the Father To The Rescue piano.

MEETING FALCONE
- James Newton Howard, Hans Zimmer, Mel Wesson
Can’t really make it up with that track. Starts with JNH’s theme until (0:11), then goes on with what Hans apparently continuated from it (0:15-0:35), big drama part. There’s a lot of Mel. But the whole track could be something Ramin or Lorne arranged.

DECISION
- Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard
Cue is definitely HZ. JNH theme used at (1:05).

HIDE IN THE DARK
- James Newton Howard
Low key JNH with Mel’s ambient.

INITIATION INTO LEAGUE
- James Newton Howard
Again pure JNH here.

TEMPLE FIGHT - SAVING DUCARD
- James Newton Howard, Hans Zimmer
JNH unleashes madness. HZ motifs heard here (Hero Theme at (1:18) and some Ra’s at (2:44)).

RETURN TO GOTHAM
- James Newton Howard
Not much to say here. Mel's ambient used here.

CRANE WARNS RACHEL (PART 1)
- James Newton Howard
Same as the previous one.

CRANE WARNS RACHEL (PART 2)
- Mel Wesson
Scarecrow ! Scarecrow !

THE BAT CAVE
- Hans Zimmer
Yes, Hans. JNH wrote a version 1 of this. But it’s version 8...

WAYNE ENTERPRISES
- James Newton Howard
JNH territory.

PROTOTYPES
- James Newton Howard, Ramin Djawadi, Hans Zimmer
Beginning is very JNH, but the electro arrangement of the track at (0:31) sounds too Djawadi not to be. Use of HZ’s 2 notes motif at (1:09).

PREPARING EQUIPMENTS
- Hans Zimmer, Mel Wesson, James Newton Howard
Mel flaps start the cue. Cue is more Hans territory (maybe with Lorne). JNH theme shows at (0:44).

I’M NO RAT - BATMAN VISITS GORDON (MISSING CUE)
- Hans Zimmer, Mel Wesson
More Mel Flaps. Hans cue. Reprised almost identital in TDK, track LSI Extraction.

I NEED YOU AT THE DOCKS - WHY BATS?
- Hans Zimmer, Mel Wesson
Still Mel flaps, cue is HZ.

DOCKYARD AMBUSH (PART 1)
- James Newton Howard, Mel Wesson
Quite a lot of Mel in there too, but the classy dark orchestration reminds us JNH's in the place.

DOCKYARD AMBUSH (PART 2)
- Hans Zimmer
Well, probably the most epic rendition of HZ’s Hero theme. Too short.

RACHEL ATTACKED
- Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, James Newton Howard
A lot going on in that cue, mashing up very different things. The electro starting the track (straight out of Angels & Demons) tells me the thing was arranged by Lorne. JNH theme shows up at (1:19).

MICROWAVE STOLEN
- James Newton Howard
JNH’s more ambient dark writing.

MEETING RACHEL
- James Newton Howard
No debate here. JNH.

CRANE’S MASK
- Mel Wesson
Scarecrow motif.

GORDON AT HOME
- James Newton Howard
JNH arranging his theme pretty dark.

FINCH IS KILLED (MISSING CUE)
- Hans Zimmer, Mel Wesson
My fav missing cue. Starts with a classy variation of that theme from the beginning of The Bat Cave. Then a soft arrangement of the epic part of the Hero Theme underlined by Mel’s flaps.

BATMAN ON FIRE
- Hans Zimmer, Mel Wesson
Scarecrow poisoning sounds by Mel. But the track is very Hans. Theme from Meeting Falcone (and a part of it can be heard at the end of Mugging Pt 2). Reprised in the Moody Bruce suite in TDKR.

FINDERS KEEPERS (PART 1)
- James Newton Howard
Softer JNH back.

FINDERS KEEPERS (PART 2)
- Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard (0:37)
Arrangement of the Hero Theme by Hans (could be Lorne arranging). JNH theme popping full force at (0:36).

FOX IS FIRED
- James Newton Howard
Reprise of Prototypes. Unless it was written before. ;)

MAKING MEDICINE
- Lorne Balfe, Mel Wesson, James Newton Howard
Most of it is Mel Wesson’s ambient. But I have no doubt that cue is Lorne. That high strings writing at (1:53) is so typical of him. JNH theme popping at (1:06).

FIGHT IN CRANE’S LAB (PART 1)
- Hans Zimmer, Mel Wesson
Mostly Mel’s ambient in there again, but the structure of the cue is very HZ.

FIGHT IN CRANE’S LAB (PART 2)
- Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
Hans & Lorne, definitely.

FIGHT IN CRANE’S LAB (PART 3)
- Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
Same as the previous one.

BACK UP
- Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, James Newton Howard
Known fact that the cue was handled by Lorne arranging HZ. JNH’s usual theme pops in at (0:25)

BATMOBILE CHASE
- Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, James Newton Howard
Lorne’s arrangement of the Hero Theme, HZ & JNH are everywhere in the mix.

RACHEL IN BAT CAVE
- James Newton Howard
After so much action, back to some more quieter JNH...

YOUR FATHER’S NAME
- James Newton Howard
... which continues here.

CRANE INTERROGATED
- Mel Wesson
More flaps & more Scarecrow.

DUCARD APPEARS
- Ramin Djawadi
Back to the first part of Ra’s.

DUCARD AND GOTHAM’S FATE
- Ramin Djawadi, Hans Zimmer
More Ra’s. HZ theme popping at (2:49)

BRUCE LEFT FOR DEAD - STILL HAVEN’T GIVEN UP
- James Newton Howard
JNH madness all the way.

RACHEL GIVES GORDON THE ANTIDOTE
- Ramin Djawadi, Mel Wesson, James Newton Howard
A lot of Mel in here, Ramin’s Ra’s at (1:51)... JNH theme popping at (3:06)

BATMAN ARRIVES
- Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Mel Wesson
Hans & Lorne. Some Scarecrow ambient from Mel.

BATMAN RESCUES RACHEL - FIGHT WITH LEAGUE
- Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, James Newton Howard (2:00)
More Hero Theme arrangements, means JNH theme shows up at (2:00) for instance. That cue sounds like a real Hans & Lorne combo. A bit of Mel sounds.

TRAIN FIGHT
- Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, James Newton Howard
More & more Hero Theme mapped here & definitely arranged by LB. A cool arrangement of that JNH theme at (0:50).

FINAL CONFRONTATION
- Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, James Newton Howard
Lorne action frenzy using themes from Batman Visits Gordon, Back Up or JNH (0:20).

TRAIN CRASH
- Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, James Newton Howard
More Lorne action. Reprise of that HZ subtheme from Meeting Falcone / Batman On Fire, & JNH theme at (0:28).

DANGER OVER
- Hans Zimmer
Classy 2 notes motif to breathe for a minute.

SURVEYING THE RUINS
- James Newton Howard
100% James concluding Bruce Wayne.

GORDON SAYS THANKS
- Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard
And HZ concluding Batman, JNH theme shows at (0:23).


Michael Baker2019-04-04 01:56:34
There we are. I agree on "Finch is Killed." The way the ostinato comes in when it transitions to the stormy view of Gotham is really great.

I think the only surprise here, for me personally, is that Hide in the Dark and Gordon at Home are pure James Newton Howard. I usually associated the dark string writing with Hans on these scores, but as we've all seen... They take ideas from each other. There are more "solo" Hans cues in your analysis than I would have guessed, but then, this was 2005. He worked a bit differently then.

Are you planning to share your updated work on TDK as well?


Edmund Meinerts2019-04-04 17:14:46
Fascinating stuff. My own guesses for this score were pretty good, but in general I had a bit more Hans and a bit less JNH, especially for some of the darker string stuff. Never realized how much Lorne is in the climax either, although in retrospect I should have (you can definitely hear it). Am I correct in thinking that you have the two main guys credited on some cues that they didn't actually work on, only their themes are used?


Michael Baker2019-04-04 18:19:07
@Edmund, my guesses had a lot more Ramin (I had him credited pretty much everywhere the Ra's al Ghul theme was used, even the Hans part of the theme). And I had guessed he was responsible for the "heroic" arrangements in Dockyard Ambush Pt. 2, Finch is Killed, and Gordon Says Thanks.


Hybrid Soldier2019-04-04 18:53:00
Who knows... Maybe he did !


Michael Baker2019-04-04 22:49:13
"Same story, different versions... And all are true." Thanks, at any rate, for working through this one, Hybrid. Much appreciated.

curba reply Replies: 1 || 2019-04-04 15:53:46
Hybrid please share, TDK composer details


Michael Baker2019-04-04 16:59:00
Actually you know what, the only interesting stuff there now that I think about it was a few more Lorne credits on cues currently credited just to Hans, and Hybrid's suggestion that the Action Ice Theme [Like a Dog Chasing Cars] might have been more Lorne than Hans (using Hans's themes). Otherwise, the info we already have is accurate.

Mike reply Replies: 14 || 2019-03-26 23:38:55
Years ago, Hybrid posted that James Newton Howard was in charge of "The Bat Cave" and people got confused since that cue is clearly Zimmer. Well here's James Newton Howard talking about that cue directly on a score podcast:

“I had written what I thought was a really good theme, played for that moment when Bruce Wayne goes into the bat cave and all the bats come flying around. And I thought it was pretty good. And then the next day, Hans arrived with his kind of infamous ostinato with the two french horn notes, and that was pretty much the way to go. So it was a mutual effort on that movie, pretty much on every cue.”

There ya go. "The Bat Cave" sounds like Hans because it is. lol.


Ian2019-03-28 17:40:08
Yeah, I just rewatched that scene, and the cue is as pure Zimmer as one can get barring an actual solo Zimmer score.


Hybrid Soldier2019-03-28 19:27:15
James wrote a lot of demos and themes that didn't make it to the movie actually... :)

I'll try to have some serious breakdown of all the cues as to who did what. Nothing "official", more like just my thoughts. I play that game a lot with Enemy of the State, weirdly, with my good friend known here as "Mr Tweedy" lol.


Mike2019-03-28 19:28:32
Yeah, the blending of HZ and JNH was really good in this movie. I seem to recall Hybrid saying that was because of Ramin Djawadi who could match the two of them. It's a shame we'll probably never have more of Ramin's credits on this score (besides "Training" and the Ra's al Ghul Suite).


Mike2019-03-28 19:29:22
Ha, "speak of the devil and he shall appear." I just made my comment as Hybrid made his.


e2019-03-28 20:59:34
That'd be really interesting Hybrid.


Mike2019-03-28 21:51:49
I agree. I know there are a lot of us here who've been curious about this score's credits over the years. Anything you've got would be appreciated. :)

You know, it just hit me that "Backup" must be (pretty much) a solo Hans cue. Lorne has a credit on it too, but Hans reprises the entire cue in the Moody Bruce TDKR suite. So unless he's reusing Lorne's ideas, I guess Backup is really HZ throughout.


Mr Tweedy2019-03-28 22:08:04
I heard "Enemy of the State" and "Mr Tweedy" so... Here I Am! ^^


Michael Baker2019-03-28 22:18:56
(BTW I guess since I'm on the FB group I might as well use my full name here now. I'm the Mike that started this thread. Hopefully other Mikes won't get confused for me now. lol.)


GreggM2019-03-28 22:54:25
Back Up is 100% Balfe . He has it on his web site and during a Facebook interview goes into detail how he created it


Michael Baker2019-03-28 22:59:14
I'm having trouble finding the video, but that conclusion strikes me as....very unlikely. He was an arranger on Begins. He didn't "write" music, from what I understand.


KnightLite2019-03-29 01:03:07
@Mike

but......I read that as that cue being 50/50 HZ/JNH. Hes quoted as saying “it was a mutual effort on that movie, pretty much on every cue”. So I see it as HZ & JNH.

And isn’t Lorne credited for backup cause he arranged it?


Michael Baker2019-03-29 01:10:15
Maybe it was 50/50, idk.... But JNH talked about that cue in 2 interviews and specifically gave credit for the ostinato to Hans. And the ostinato is also the buildup part of the track. But yes, I think you're right. It probably was HZ/JNH. It was definitely HZ, though.


Powellfan2019-03-29 22:21:56
GreggM: Do you know where exactly I can find that interview?


Michael Baker2019-04-03 18:18:43
Yeah, I wasn't able to find the video either... Rest assured, guys, Hybrid is hard at work figuring this score out. lol.

Mike reply Replies: 1 || 2018-08-07 05:24:38
As we've discussed before, there's several cues in the score that aren't here...some of the Courthouse stuff, the kid seeing Batman in the Narrows, and Bruce visiting Gordon all come to mind... Anyone know why it is that these scores leak with certain cues missing?


Anonymous2019-03-29 02:35:35
tracking purposes

Lincoln Clay reply Replies: 1 || 2018-03-31 06:28:29
Please someone write Composer details?


superultramegaa2018-03-31 13:40:12
We do not, and will never know composer details. As said numerous times on every Batman movie thread, James Newton Howard, and the other writers were throwing out ideas with Zimmer and each other from the beginning. We will never know who did what because this score was truly a co-composing in the most literal sense.

For an idea of what James Newton did, look at Hybrid's comment where he lists the track that we know that he was involved in. Though we don't know if he co-wrote them, or did them himself. We also know Ramin helped with "Training", and Balfe arranged "Backup", and "Batmobile Chase".

Hanzi reply Replies: 22 || 2012-07-24 09:12:37
Does anyone know where is the music on this complete score when Batman first meets Gordon ("you're a good cop , one of the few") and has to escape from the police station?
Thank you


Hybrid Soldier2012-07-24 09:56:36
The cue, called Batman Visits Gordon, is missing, like a few others : Courthouse Pt 2, Finch Is Killed & a part of Fight In Crane's Lab...

As for JNH's involvement, though crediting is quite hard cause the basic material for the score was written by both Hans & James, but I can tell you that he was "in charge" of :

Father To The Rescue
Campfire
Your System Is Broken
Hide In The Dark
Initiation Into League
Temple Fight
Return To Gotham
Crane Warns Rachel
The Bat Cave
Wayne Enterprises
Prototypes
Batman Visits Gordon
Dockyard Ambush Pt1
Meeting Rachel
Microwave Stolen
Fox Is Fired
Surveying The Ruins

I miss a few, but you can certainly add to that cues like Finders Keepers Pt 1, Your Father's Name, Bruce Left For Dead.

That doesn't really seem like he did nothing... ;)


Hanzi2012-07-24 10:04:43
Thank you for your answer Hybrid:)
So that means the track 25. Batman Visits Gordon (1:12)included on some bootlegs contains FX?



Hybrid Soldier2012-07-24 10:10:18
Yes they generally are DVD rips.


Hanzi2012-07-24 10:20:51
Thank you for the information Hybrid :)
Strangely I was sure the music from "Batman visits Gordon" was originally on the official soundtrack : my bad :)


Hybrid Soldier2012-07-24 10:23:26
Not in Begins but in TDK's OST in "I'm Not A Hero", there's an almost identical reprise of it in it... :P


cheesy2012-07-24 15:15:27
Are you sure about Initiation Into League/Bruce Left for Dead/Dockyard Ambush Pt. 1/The Bat Cave?

I don't mean to question you, but those sure sound a lot like Zimmer tracks to me. It'd be fascinating otherwise.


Mr. Charles2012-07-24 19:22:48
Thanks for all the info, Hybrid. Like I said down below, trying to prove people wrong, Hans wrote the majority, JNH did the rest.

Now I have to agree with Cheesy, is "The Batcave" REALLY JNH? I know you have your sources Hybrid, but that's got Zimmer's main 2-note Batman theme in it, finishing off the track. I could swear it's Zimmer. But I'm not doubting you


Anonymous2012-07-25 09:49:50
there are no missing parts Hybrid, those cues exist. I have those cues, and they are not dvd-rips


Mr. Charles2012-07-25 16:27:32
Ya, I happen to have those "missing cues" as well, and they're genuine 320kbps. Clean, no DVD rip


cheesy2012-07-26 06:41:52
Wat? Since when? Did I miss this party?


Bou2012-07-27 09:39:13
You really think that if these famous "missing cues" were available , FX free , genuine or anything you prefer , they would not be included in the HZ.com BB tracklist?
DVD rips! that's all FAKE!


Mike2012-11-30 08:12:14
Regarding JNH and the Bat Cave: are you ABSOLUTELY sure that was Howard? Your System is Broken also sounded heavily "Zimmer" to me. I mean, you're the boss, but...


Mike2012-11-30 08:13:48
Oh shoot, I feel annoying. Two people said the same thing above.


Anonymous2013-08-01 16:43:41
JNH said he had a stronger presence in the first half of the film and Zimmer had a stronger presence in the second half, so those credits up there actually make some form of sense, even if JNH used Zimmer's themes a lot.


Anonymous2013-08-01 22:18:47
I know this has no real basis, but if I had to guess which tracks were Zimmer based on Hybrid's list of Howard stuff, I would say Zimmer was "in charge of":

Young Bruce Falls
The Long Walk
Training
Why Bats?
Gordon at Home
Batman On Fire
Finders Keepers pt. 2
Fight in Crane's Lab (all parts)
Back Up (yes I know Lorne arranged this one)
Batmobile chase
Batman Arrives
All the final fight music
Danger Over
Gordon Says Thanks


Mike (OTM)2017-08-12 04:29:09
I think there's a lot of leeway with respect to who was "in charge of what" here, especially where Hans' two-note theme is prominent. Just recently in an interview for Dunkirk, Nolan talked about "Hans' music" during the Bat Cave scene of Begins, so Hans definitely was involved there.

Plus, the end of "The Bat Cave" is reprised a few times in TDK and TDKR, and in all those cases, it's Zimmer who's in charge. We know BB was a co-written score, so everyone was kind of involved with everything.


lordy2017-08-12 09:34:53
Hybrid, is there an explanation why the cue "Courthouse Pt 2" missing?


Mike (OTM)2017-08-12 18:01:11
Courthouse Part 2 isn't the only cue missing...We also have "Batman Visits Gordon," already mentioned, and also the cue when Carl, the DA, gets shot, and then Batman sees the kid in the Narrows. I really love the last cue, too. :(


Cameron2017-08-12 19:40:01
Well, I guess that explains why JNH sounds like Zimmer quite a bit in that score. I wonder why they didn't use the same collaborative style in TDK.


Mike (OTM)2017-11-16 01:05:55
@Cameron, they were located separately during the making of TDK, if I recall correctly. So work had to be more split up.


lordy2018-03-15 20:58:48
@Mike (OTM): but any idea or explanation, why these cues are missing? especially why aren't they on the tracklist here on the official zimmer page?


Dawn2018-03-16 00:48:07
@lordy
This all depends on how the music leaks. Many, many unofficial releases are incomplete.
Mostly because :
#1 they weren't properly ripped from the archives
#2 all tracks couldn't be located
#3 files are damaged
#4 someone decided not to share them (but I doubt this as in this case the missing tracks seem quite random and far from being the iconic ones)

The only way to get them is to wait and hope for someone else to share a version from another source!

Mike (OTM) reply Replies: 5 || 2017-11-26 04:46:21
Whenever I listen to The Dark Knight, where Howard's involvement was diminished, and Rises, where it's pretty much absent, I realize how much heart he helped give to Batman Begins. His presence was there in The Dark Knight, but TDK was a Hans score with some James at specific points, because they were working separately during the process.

But Begins was really Hans and James (and Mel and Lorne and Ramin, too...) and it had more heartfelt moments consistently throughout. You can hear the musical relationships Bruce has with Rachel and with his parents, and it's a really nice complement to all the dark/brooding/ambient/action material. "Your Father's Name," "Father to the Rescue," and tons of other cues really give Begins a warmer sounding score and make it more well-rounded.

Hans wrote some emotional stuff in TDK and TDKR (particularly the Dark Knight suite), but that's more emotional in a powerful or tragic kind of way. James' contributions to these scores felt more emotional in a loving and deep kind of way. Has anybody else thought about this?

Also, while I'm here, if JNH had worked on TDKR, I wonder if the Harvey Dent theme would have come back for the subplot of his. I've always wondered why Hans and co. didn't bring that theme back. Instead, they kind of created a new theme for the Dent stuff ("The Truth About Harvey Dent" and "Gotham is Yours").


James2017-11-26 11:05:20
I also like Howard's contributions very much. Batman begins is the second among my two favourite scores of the Nolan trilogy. ;)

Unfortunately I think the contribution between JNH and HZ was always more a matter of support than the desire to do something together (Zimmer says inviting Howard to work with him was promise made in the middle of the years 90). Hans thought needed Howard's name beside him so his score was better accepted in the eyes of the aficionados by the music of 89. Not that he needed, of course. But doing the BB score and giving a new musical identity to Batman was one of the biggest challenges of his career.


James2017-11-26 11:08:57
and Howard accepted the challenge, even with so many people going against the two working together. It was a riot at the time. lol


Hybrid Soldier2017-11-26 12:08:32
Wait wait what's this story... "better accepted" ? Hans couldn't care less about that.

Hans & James were going to score Secret Window together but James was too exhausted after The Village to dive into it so they cancelled. And when Nolan came to Hans, Hans' first reaction was to bring James...

Also, if Begins blends more as a collaboration between the two, it's because of Ramin, who's style can match both Hans & James perfectly... :)


James2017-11-26 12:26:04
lol

Thank you for your attention, Hybrid!
I always let myself think too much about certain situations. I've gone too far, I recognise. Particularly I don't know anything about the behind the scenes of the productions. I couldn't even do it. I don't live in the USA. :D
But the impression I've always had is that James has always been there to give a "hi" and satisfy Hans ' willingness to see them working together.
Wanting or not, TDK trilogy music was not destroyed by criticism because of Howard's involvement. Unfortunately they tend to exaggerate in negative commentary when the name of Zimmer is associated with the score.


Mike (OTM)2017-11-26 23:50:27
Interesting, Hybrid, about Ramin...We know he worked on Training and the Ra's al Ghul suite, which both sound like a bridge between Zimmer and Howard. Do you know what other cues he worked on? And for that matter, out of curiosity, do you have any knowledge of what cues are primarily Hans? It's easier to tell what's James, whereas Hans could be Hans + Ramin, Lorne, or Mel... So it would be intriguing to know which cues are 90% Zimmer or more.

Peter reply Replies: 0 || 2017-11-03 15:34:12
Who exactly composed the songs, I ask about these partners Hans and James?

Cameron reply Replies: 3 || 2017-08-10 23:03:47
Hybrid, I know a definitive credits list is not really possible. However, you did say which cues JNH was in charge of. Could you perhaps do the same for Zimmer?


Mike (OTM)2017-08-11 01:51:32
Same question!


Cameron2017-08-11 02:34:43
Also, are we 1000% sure (you read that right) that "Batman Visits Gordon" isn't legit? I've listened to it myself. Didn't hear the slightest bit of SFX.


Cameron2017-08-11 22:22:17
Never mind about BVG, I've now heard the evidence that it is indeed a DVD rip.

Cameron reply Replies: 1 || 2017-07-20 21:22:28
Question about "Batman On Fire," the film version. I seem to have heard another mix where the opening synth, instead of fading in, starts right up and is rather jarring. It's hard to explain without being able to upload it, but does anyone know what I'm talking about?


skeletonmage2017-08-09 00:33:06
The film version starts with the alternate and switches over to the non-alternate in the middle.

superultramegaa reply Replies: 2 || 2017-06-07 01:22:38
Does anyone have the film version of "Backup" here? While the Lorne Balfe cue and end credits versions are both really good, I would be extremely interested in the film edit if it's available.


Mike (Otm)2017-06-07 16:14:02
Agreed. Love the film version.


superultramegaa2017-06-10 21:07:01
Also, I'm curious about a particular song in this score, "Courthouse Part 1," was that Hans Zimmer? I always thought it sounded like some of Zimmer's emotional suites in thing like "Bootstrap Bill" in Pirates of the Caribbean 1, or "You're my Boy" in The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Plus I think the choir they use in "Courthouse" and "Mugging Part 2" is Zimmer as he uses it in TDKR (I know that's not proof but it's an assumption,) and similar notes appear in Ra's Al Ghul's death and Dockyard Ambush's ending. Plus JNH's version of "Courthouse," in TDK in "I Am The Batman" sounds very different, so I'm really wondering how much involvement he had in the track.

Cameron reply Replies: 2 || 2016-05-10 18:30:47
No one seems to have this exact version. Only the one where all the cues are combined.


Russel2016-05-10 21:53:09
I think you should request it.


Cameron2016-05-11 22:48:42
What do you mean?

Cameron reply Replies: 0 || 2016-05-11 00:36:27
Where? Here? When last I looked, they didn't share here. Unless you mean something else???

Dukard reply Replies: 0 || 2015-12-30 00:37:15
I keep seeing an unlisted track called "Teddy Bears" on a few sights but can't seem to listen to it.

Mike reply Replies: 4 || 2014-08-08 03:33:40
How were Tom Gire and John Sponsler associated with Batman Begins? The movie is listed on the magic box site, but this site has nothing relating them to this score.


Anonymous2014-08-08 03:36:11
probably did a trailer or something


Anonymous2014-08-08 04:50:02
Mike, it says right on the page "Trailer". There's your answer -_-


Drunkenmunkey2014-08-08 05:35:32
LOL


Mike2014-08-08 18:59:48
My bad.... :P

smooth reply Replies: 1 || 2014-02-20 17:46:52
someone has the music trailers batman begins?


Nyct2014-05-10 04:01:43
Depends on the trailer.

Mike reply Replies: 0 || 2014-05-09 21:22:43
I noticed recently how quietly mixed the "Prototypes" cue is in the movie. Weird considering that Nolan usually likes the music to be loud (as Hans himself said in a Q&A session once). A shame, cause it's a neat cue and you can barely hear it.

smooth reply Replies: 0 || 2014-02-20 17:41:36
it´s is real??? scoring sessions is real?

  Your name :   

Please enter number: 1032 

Mike reply Replies: 0 || 2014-02-14 00:29:24
For those, like me, who are wondering how much of Batmobile Chase was really Lorne Balfe's creative genius, listen to the "Final Confrontation" cue (the one right before Train Fight). If Hans did that cue, then we can know Batmobile Chase is at least 95% Zimmer, even if Lorne Balfe TECHNICALLY arranged it.

RealFfingMusic reply Replies: 6 || 2014-02-11 14:34:34
Can we have a complete list of who did what here?


Mike2014-02-11 15:19:44
Hybrid has said a billion times that such a thing is impossible. We know the following:

Ramin Djawadi was involved with Training and Lasiurus
Lorne Balfe was involved with Batmobile Chase and Backup
Mel Wesson did the ambient material in the score
And then the James Newton Howard contributions are, generally, rather obvious. But he uses a lot of HZ material and style throughout the score, so it's not black and white.


Edmund Meinerts2014-02-11 15:28:32
Yeah. Plus, Hybrid posted a list of cues that JNH was "in charge of" just below this thread.


RealFfingMusic2014-02-11 15:39:55
Sorry, didn't know the detailed history.
:)


RealFfingMusic2014-02-11 15:45:20
Was Vespertilio re-used in DKR?


Mike2014-02-11 16:16:29
Well, not exactly like that....It's the main theme throughout the films, so it popped up essentially at various points, but the closest thing to it being used directly in TDKR was the Hospital Visit cue.


RealFfingMusic2014-02-11 17:38:50
Oh. Thanks Mike.

Anonymous reply Replies: 1 || 2014-02-10 17:18:58
hybrid, zimmer wrote the theme used in training right? because he used that theme again in tdk and there was no ramin credit.


Mike2014-02-10 17:26:21
This is something I wondered myself as well. Cause if Ramin really wrote that theme (as opposed to just arranging it after Hans wrote it), he basically wrote the most important theme out of the trilogy (and the theme which made the endings of TDK and TDKR so memorable).

Mike reply Replies: 0 || 2014-01-04 02:23:00
In Kung Fu Panda, certain ghostwriters would be involved with each specific composer (Paul Mounsey did cues for Powell while Lorne did cues for Zimmer, for example). Was it similar here? Like, if Ramin Djawadi did some cues, they were for Zimmer, not Howard?

Anon1 reply Replies: 1 || 2013-08-01 22:08:54
I love how the end of the alternate version of "Batman on Fire" uses Zimmer/Howard's so-called Batman "theme". I also prefer that one because there's less vocals. Wish it had been used in the film.


Mike2013-08-01 22:09:54
This might sound bizarre, but with the muted vocals that track really reminds me of "Am I Not Merciful?".

Anonymous reply Replies: 0 || 2013-08-01 21:57:29
The 10 seconds from 2:23-2:33 in Making Medicine are great! :D

Anonymous reply Replies: 0 || 2013-08-01 16:08:10
What exactly is the point of having some cues split into "Part 1" and "Part 2"?

James reply Replies: 1 || 2013-06-14 09:12:47
I honestly think this is one of the best scores ever written. Proof of this comes from the fact that it's been copied by every action film and movie trailer since 2005. It's just a genius piece of work and fits the movie perfectly.


Ted2013-06-15 22:25:30
You have a really bizarre idea of what "proof" is. The score is copied because Batman Begins and The Dark Knight were successful and revolutionized superhero movies in general. Now every director wants their films to be like Nolan's films and that includes music that sounds like Zimmer.

Anonymous reply Replies: 5 || 2013-05-16 02:37:36
does this have the film mix of the tumbler chase?


Anon-e-missing2013-05-20 05:17:03
This reminds me: can anyone tell me why these scores contain cues as originally recorded, but not the final film versions also/instead (like Backup)?


Mike2013-05-20 05:22:33
If I had to guess, I would say the purpose of the cue sheet is to determine what goes where...Not to document all the music written/used, necessarily...I dunno. It is a shame, though. The film version of Backup is intense.


Anonymous2013-05-27 21:16:32
Speaking of Backup, I find it really interesting that even though Lorne Balfe arranged the cue, we now know:

--what Backup would sound like if Lorne were totally in charge of it (the cue on his site)
--what Backup would sound like if whoever the music mixer was had his way with Lorne's cue (the film version)
--and now, what Backup would sound like if Hans Zimmer was in charge: 1:10-2:43 in "Imagine the Fire"!


Dawn2013-05-27 23:45:22
Mmmhhh honestly, I think that, though Lorne has Backup on his website, he only arranged some HZ suite/material. For me Backup is 100% HZ, but Lorne was asked to arrange the cue to the picture. The same way there's this long HZ "Wayne Manor" suite from TDKR that was arranged to the picture by other team members.


Mike2013-05-28 05:27:10
It seems slightly unfair to me to compare Backup to TDKR's score. Because with TDKR's score, the material from the suites is hardly changed at all. For example, pretty much all the Bane music heard in the movie, or cues like "Blake Visits Wayne Manor", "Take Me to Bane", "Not Meant to Die Here", "He Was the Batman", "No Stone Unturned"--whether or not they were arranged by Hans, they appear in the film exactly as Hans wrote them in his suites. Thus, it truly is 100% Hans.

But something about Backup feels like more than JUST an arrangement of pre-existing themes. As much as Lorne borrowed from existing thematic material, it seems to be far more "original" than the cues from TDKR and Lorne truly deserves to call it his.

cheesy reply Replies: 4 || 2011-08-01 21:27:09
@Hybrid (or anyone else capable) Do you think we could get a track list/log for which composers wrote which cues, like we got with TDK? I've always wondered whether it was HZ or JNH who wrote the music for Ra's Al Ghul.


Agnt007dman2011-08-02 00:08:57
Yes, I second this! Please Hybrid, please!


Yusef2013-05-21 19:36:48
I'm pretty sure the Ra's al Ghul theme was JNH.


billy2013-05-22 19:17:32
I remember that once Hybrid had made a credits list for the OST and the Lasiurus track (which is the Ra’s Al Ghul Suite) was written by JNH.


Hybrid Soldier2013-05-22 19:35:44
Actually after I asked, I was told Djawadi did work on Lasiurus. Did he write it all ? Arrange it ? No idea, but he surely was on it.

Hale reply Replies: 1 || 2011-05-23 17:16:48
These recording sessions are just awesome. If all Zimmer scores could benefit of this kind of release (non-official or official), it would be a better score music world!!


Anonymous2013-05-21 19:33:11
Amen to that!

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Batman Begins (Expanded Score) soundtrack - Hans Zimmer - James Newton Howard 2005