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I have seen Inception, the expanded score and wondering if this is an official release or is it something that someone has made and selling off as an official release as I can't find much information anywhere about it?
Question for the great and all-knowing Hybrid Soldier lol. You said on the Kung Fu Panda page that Lorne made suites of some of Hans' themes for this score. Do you know what those suites are? Like we know that Time and Mal Suite = Zimmer alone, so what were the suites Lorne did based off Hans Zimmer's ideas?
Actually I was speaking in general.
But on this score I was thinking about Kick-It... I think all the others are Hans.
"Actually I was speaking in general..."
That's a tad surprising. With the exception of POTC 3 and maybe Man of Steel, it seems like most of the suites on a given Zimmer score will be Zimmer himself. Do you have any other examples besides Inception and POTC 3 where Lorne did suites like this?
Well, POTC 3 and 2, but it seems the suites from #2 haven't seen the light of day.
I found this in the web. Anyone can tell me what is it?
CD 1 01. Opening Titles 02. A Forgotten Dream 03. Stranded 04. Dream Is Collapsing 05. The Train 06. James and Philipa 07. Saito’s Project 08. The Architect 09. Five Minutes 10. Totem 11. The Forger 12. Mombasa 13. Paradox (Sedative) 14. Mr Fisher 15. The Project 16. Cobb’s Memories 17. Plane to Catch 18. Disappointment. One Sample Idea. We Need to Move
CD 2 01. Subconscious (The Hotel) 02. Rotating Hallway 03. The Kick 04. Massive Attack 05. We Built Our Own World 06. Wating For A Train 07. Is Not Real 08. Collapse 09. Come Back 10. End Credits
CD 3 01. A Forgotten Dream (Editated) 02. A Dream Within a Dream. The Train (Alternate) 03. James and Philipa (Alternate) 04. The Architet (Alternate) 05. A Totem (Editated). The Forger (Alternate) 06. ParadoxSedative (Alternate) 07. Mr. Fisher (Editated). The Project part one (Alternate) 08. The Project (Alternate - Long Version) 09. Cobb’s Dreams (Alternate) 10. Disappointment. One Sample Idea (Alternate)We Need to Move (Isolated) 11. Subconscious (Alternate) 12. Rotating Hallway (Isolate Alternate) 13. The Kick (Isolate) 14. Massive Attack (Isolate) 15. Massive Attack (Alt.1) 16. Massive Attack (Alt.2) 17. Is Not Real (Alternate) 18. Is Not Real (Short Version) 19. Collapse (Different Version) 20. Come Back (Alt.1) 21. Come Back (Alt.2) 22. Inception (Suite Frmo the Movie)
CD 4 01. Time - (Mix Version) 02. Time (We Plants Are Happy Plants Remix) 03. Inception (Junkie XL Remix) 04. Dream Is Collapsing (The Extractor’s Theme) 05. Mal’s Theme 06. Ariadne - The Architect’s Theme 07. Disappointment 08. Chaos 09. Limbo 10. We Built Our Own World (Different Version) 11. We Built Our Own World (Alternate) 12. Radical Notion (Alt.1) 13. Radical Notion (Alt.2) 14. Old Souls (Alternate) 15. 528491 (Alternate) 16. Mombasa - Album Version (Alternate) 17. One Simple Idea (Different Version) 18. Dream Within a Dream (Different Version) 19. Dream Within a Dream (Alternate) 20. Paradox (Alt.1) 21. Paradox (Alt.2)
CD 5 01. Main Theme 02. Time (Angels version) 03. Time (Different Version) 04. Dream Is Collapsing (Album Version) 05. Dream Is Collapsing (Mix Version) 06. Still Dream (Theme from Inception The App) 07. Action Dream (Theme From Inception The App) 08. Travelling Dream (Theme From Inception The App) 09. 1st Trailer 10. 2nd Trailer 11. 3th Trailer 12. Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien 13. Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien (Slow Version) 14. The Hotel (Clip, No SFX) 15. One Simple Idea (Album Version) 16. Mombasa (Album Version) 17. Old Souls (Album Version) 18. Time (Album Version) 19. The Point Man (Arthur’s Theme) 20. Life Takes Death Gives (Unused)
garbage...a fan super extrem power edit! ;)
I think the "Lorne Balfe (High Fart Remix Version of Dream Is Collapsing)" is apparently missing from this awesome thing...
:D :D a must have remix!!!
Some tracks are "editated"? Ha...this list is pure crap.
I just noticed the new crediting here...so Zimmer DID help write the Kick It suite?
I don't think so, from what I've been told, but I'll never have concrete proof of that... :)
I also see that Mombasa Suite is no longer credited...Is that just because there's nothing "official" to go by? And then also, was a suite written for the Fischer theme?
can we safely say zimmer wrote the saito theme (ya know, the super-low string theme daaaaaa DWAAAAAAAA....lol) since it was in the hans zimmer revealed concert?
Hey Anonymous, can you be more specific please? I've never been good at distinguishing themes and I'd like to know what your interpretation of Saito's theme is. Thanks!
if you're just listening off the soundtrack album listen to the second half of "paradox"...it's in there...it also plays at the beginning of the movie when it shows the old man saito...and it also plays when saito is lying wounded on the table, and when he throws the grenade down the ventilation shaft in the snowy dream level :P
Ok I thought so. Thank you for clarifying and being so specific ;)
Is "Kick it" actually written by Lorne Balfe or is it an arrangement of a source cue by Hans?
both composed this track ''Kick it Suite''
I think it's just Lorne
As far as I know it's just Lorne, but I've often wondered if Hans at least wrote the basic cue, since it's used so often in this score.
As an interesting side note, IMHO Kick It is the best theme in the score (maybe after the Time suite). So kudos to Lorne, Hans, or both for coming up with it.
Kick It has to have been at least BASICALLY written by Hans first and then turned into a suite by Mr Balfe/arranged by him for the film later...because even in the making-of video with Zimmer that theme is used a lot...
Seems to me like he threw a temper tantrum and took them down...check the thread below this one. Don't ask me why... :|
OH, COME ON!!!
Who did what here?
Lorne Balfe did all the cues, Hans Zimmer did the F Riff suite (Dream Is Collapsing), Mal Dark suite (Old Souls), Time suite (Time), and Mombasa suite (Mombasa), and Lorne Balfe did the Kick It suite (One Simple Idea, albeit extended).
Some cues are just Lorne's music, most cues are Hans and Lorne, and a couple (like Mombasa Chase and Welcome Home, Mr Cobb) are essentially just Hans.
Oh, and Lorne did the Robert Fischer and Saito themes, too.
Hybrid can be such a teenager!
No, Mike is just doing an analysis of MY analysis which wasn't based on facts.
In other words, it's all wind !
Fair enough, Hybrid. :)
Still doesn't explain why you took down the credits, though. That was immature.
He gave his reasoning. It "causes melodrama". I wouldn't call it melodrama, for me at least, but hey, his words. It IS mentioned a lot on this page.
Here's my take: taking the credits away has caused melodrama. What was going on before was more like useless, petty theorizing and guessing over a topic that really isn't that vital.
Who the hell cares if a track was 35% Lorne, 25% Zimmer, and 40% some other dude??? Are you going to tag your tracks like that? Why is it so important to know exactly and precisely who did what down to a minute-by-minute level analysis?
I removed them, Ed, because it's based on my experience, and not on facts or any cue sheet... ;)
Thanks for clearing that up, Hybrid. Makes sense now. :)
Areozz, I agree that some people are getting way too concerned over details. I'm someone who does take a bit of comfort in knowing exactly who is responsible for the music I like, but on the other hand I don't wear myself out puzzling out the exact percentages or anything... :p
Fair point, well made, Mr. Meinerts.
And Areozz. Sorry. :)
I'll give an example, to show you how tricky it can be...
Blackbeard from POTC 4.
Technically the cue is Matt Margeson... But he just orchestrated / edited / arranged it... It was Hans' original suite (which, btw, was never recorded...) directly used as the cue. So Matt did work & handle it, but the cue remains HZ's music in the end...
"Who the hell cares if a track was 35% Lorne, 25% Zimmer, and 40% some other dude??? Are you going to tag your tracks like that? Why is it so important to know exactly and precisely who did what down to a minute-by-minute level analysis?"
Totally agreed. I use whatever name is on the film or CD cover. As we all know, its usually just Hans Zimmer. So stick him in the tags and be done.
Here here. Well said
saying blackbeard was never recorded you mean never recorded with real instruments right? or do you mean hans just hummed the main tune and matthew margeson did the rest? sorry if that's a dumb question. :P
To keep it simple: You can create realistic sounding demos using software that handles orchestral sample libraries.
Yeah of course I mean with no "real" instruments... He wrote it with samples, a long suite only half used in the movie...
I'd love to hear the rest of that!
That's pretty cool Hybrid. Do you have any idea why they decided not to record it. The album presentation of 'Blackbeard' is crap.
Which suite is that?
And who did the cues for "Mombassa Chase" and "Fisher and Son"?
I am asking about "Mombassa Chase" again cuz Mike said above Mombassa is LB but Chase is Hans. So I'm confused.
And it's "Fischer and Son". Sorry :)
You're right, Mombasa Chase is Hans—it's lifted directly out of Hans' Mombasa suite pretty much—but if it is Lorne Balfe, it just means he arranged it for the scene. It doesn't have to mean it was *his* music or that he even did anything considerable to it. But Mombasa Chase may be just Hans for all we know. I'd stick with saying it's Lorne's arrangement for now, personally, but hey.... lol
E Tragic Strings Suite (1:38)....is that a new addition to the tracklist? I don't recall seeing that there before...
It is a new addition...
Wonder what theme it is....
We can't be missing out on much considering that it's less than two minutes long. It's just another little thing Hybrid decided to add on top of removing the credits. I don't mean to sound rude, but sometimes he can be a selfish little bitch. An action that he might feel will make him the hero or make him special is more likely to make him look like an asshole.
I expect the new track to be something along the lines of the middle part of "Waiting for a Train" from the OST, which can also be found in the Reverie and Sleep Dreams from the Dream App. I wouldn't fret over it too much.
this suite (Tragic Strings Suite) - track Saito Fate ?
I was watching the movie today and listening to the music on a scene-by-scene basis.....it's amazing how much Lorne Balfe did on this score. It's really good music, too. Does he ever feel disappointed that he isn't properly credited?
What the heck is the download Arrow for?
It looks better with it.
Ok Cause I was wondering why the heck you have the download arrow when you can't download the track. or at least I couldn't
Re: the initial post, I have a question here maybe Hybrid can answer....seeing as Lorne Balfe's Kick It theme is used A LOT throughout this movie (I'd call it one of the primary themes), was it Hans who decided he wanted that theme used so much (even though he didn't write it) or did the director like it a lot and want them to use it?
hybrid where do you get crediting info from? or are you not allowed to say? :P
Since all this has become such an important melodrama around here, I just removed the credits...
Hope it eases your minds !
Huh? What? Why would you do that, Hybrid?
Read this quote from a Lorne Balfe interview to the end, everybody, then tell me: is it really SO shocking that judging by his description of things, he'd end up writing a good deal of the score (he's talking about Inception an Sherlock Holmes below)?
“There’s lots of producers I know where they don’t really do much. They just come in and listen to something and then make one change—turn the cowbell up and then everyone else does the work. It’s totally different with me; it’s really a case of trying to help create a sonic world and figure out the different instruments being used, and also I was doing additional writing on it as well. So it’s trying to help create the sonic world. I might have different ideas and it will be put in. I think if you don’t [sometimes tell Hans his direction is wrong] you don’t create anything interesting, because you might like orange juice and I don’t. Or we could discuss why we actually don’t like it and use a teaspoon of apple juice and we get a mix. If either of us don’t like something, we say it, and that creates a good partnership.”
And bear in mind that unlike, say, TDKR where Lorne was basically just Hans' arranger, he was the producer on this film, which, as the interview quote shows, is a much larger role.
Thanks, Anonymous. Very interesting quote. Hybrid, does Hans have the same role as the producer in Modern Warfare 2's score as Lorne does on some of Hans' scores? Because I've always thought that MW2's score had Zimmer's influence all around.
I'm with you on that one Mike. Also though if that is the case. I still think that on this score Lorne (by his own words) is an Additional Music composer. Not a co-Composer he takes the Ideas that Hans already wrote. and either adds to them or says let's change that around a bit.
But I would be interested on the take of what would be the Mw2 score if that is the case Zimmer was more than just a producer and main theme guy. he should actually be on with additional music if not co-Composer on that score.
Does what i say make sense?
When Lorne gets an "Additional Music / Music Producer" credit, it's a disguised way to say co-composer (Inception, Frost/Nixon, Sherlock 1 & 2...)
Oh! ok thanks for the info. What about CoDmw2
Here's the one thing I don't get (don't take this as melodrama—I have no problems with collaboration or anything. I just want opinions). Hans said in some interview once that he likes collaboration because, among other things, it gives the other guys experience, and he said wants people to know "that Lorne Balfe is a good composer", which is part of the reason he always works with him. But wouldn't a better way to get Lorne's name out there be to actually put Lorne's name up there with Hans' on scores where Lorne's work is substantial? Idk, maybe it's not Hans' call, but if he wants Lorne to be known in the composing world, the current way isn't best IMO. Because so many people think that with Inception, all the music you're hearing is Zimmer. And all that does is boost peoples' esteem of Zimmer and keep them in the dark about talents like Lorne Balfe. Most people don't bother looking at more specific credits. ;)
I do see what you are saying Mike. Although with the Inception score Technically Zimmer did write most of it. (aside from the kick it suite. even though that was used most in the film.) The other stuff was written by Zimmer then you have a mix of both for the score. as Lorne said in the interview "Hans would write something and I would add something and we'd decide whether to keep it or throw it away." Although the method to get him in. with the other top people is probably to give him a film he can actually do by himself.
Am I the only one who's NOT in love with the "Dream Is Collapsing/F Riff Suite"? A lot of people say that it and Time are the highlights of the score, and Time is definitely really good (as is the rest of the score), but Dream is Collapsing doesn't do much for me. I much prefer the Kick It Suite.
Time Is Fantastic. Dream Is Collapsing. I Honestly think was A very good part of the score. I like it. (In terms of the other score) Dream within a Dream.
How involved, Hybrid, is Zimmer with the use (in the film) of music he didn't write? Like the Kick it Suite.
I would say Zimmer did most of it. He is credited.
MacArthur, crediting is truly irrelevant. Look at Curse of the Black Pearl. Was Zimmer credited there? No, but he wrote most of the music, as we later find out.
Good point there but also on this site. Zimmer is credited as Composer for curse of the black pearl. I'm sure if Lorne actually wrote most or half or even 30% he would be credited as Co-Composer, Hybrid is not stupid and he knows all the stuff that goes on.
One more thing. I say that Zimmer did most of this also because, he got an oscar nomination and didn't get one for the Dark Knight. (Because of to many Composers) so I think that it is fair to credit 90% of this score to Zimmer aside from the Satio Theme Zimmer wrote most of this score. it's like The Dark Knight Rises, I think that most if not all was written by Hans, but Arranged by Balfe. See my point
Kick It Suite is credited to Lorne Balfe. Balfe ALONE. As you say, Hybrid is not stupid, and he wouldn't do that if Hans was involved in that cue to any great extent.
To me, this score is roughly 70% Zimmer and 30% Balfe.
And let's not forget that, in addition to the Kick it Suite, which appears very often throughout the score, Balfe did another very common theme ALONE as well: Robert Fischer's. And if Hybrid's crediting is right, it looks as if he did Saito's theme, too, which is used a lot in the beginning parts of the film.
Ok But still on the Smaller score a lot of what I heard was Zimmer, I wouldn't credited Balfe as a Co-Composer.
A lot of what you heard was Zimmer? What do you mean? Do you have God's ears? Can you hear, among all the dedicated composers who work with RCP, and of all the works they have all done, which pieces of music were definitely absolutely written by Hans Zimmer? I mean, a lot of other composers' stuff sounds like Hans Zimmer as well.
There are differences in all the Rcp Composer's leave it alone
I wonder why no "Mr. Charles (Alternate II)" is listed. In the film, when Cobb and Fischer are running from the projections and enter the restroom, it uses Fischer's theme, while the cue listed here uses the Mombasa theme. But then, I guess TDKR had no alternate versions of "Batman Chased", "Rooftop Fight", "Imagine the Fire", or "Fernet-Branca", which were all different in the film.