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Olive, if you think Brothers In Arms is nothing more than a RCP power anthem, then you're obviously missing something... To me it's one of the most brilliant action tracks of the last few years.Ola team ! <br>Maybe you do know Joe Kramer won't return to score Mission Impossible 6. And no one seems to know who will.<br>So here's my question : any chance to see someone from RC doing this ? <br><br>Thanks for reading me. Keep goin' your good job here, it's appreciated. :)<br>Wow. Pretty solid! It keeps the core track intact and, somehow, adds even more raw power into it. Thanks for sharing!@MrZimmerFan<br><br><Is better because there is variety and orchestration><br><br>It is not because a score is orchestrated that it is automatically superior to one half orchestrated and half electronic. My problem with JL is that it's a small score for a composer with as many facets as Elfman. The music is uninspired and (taking one or another track) ends as it begins, nothing catches yours ears beyond of the romantic moments and of the new interpretations of the themes for the heroes.<br><br>@mpolonest<br><br><I actually love that score, but I think the main issue is Elfman completely ignoring what came before and trying to force the classic themes.><br><br>Elfman had two paths: Ignore everything and do things his way or respect what Zimmer did and maintain the sound of previous films. What did he do? He made an uninspiring hybrid of both.<br><br>@HybridSoldier<br><br><Leagues above, and yet I doubt Ben will be able to write something like "Brothers In Arms" from Mad Max.><br><br>Everyone in RCP knows how to do a power anthem these days.<br><br>@Mephariel<br><br><I would not have gotten a chance to work on blockbuster films like Dunkirk, Blade Runner 2049 without Zimmer's influence.><br><br>Obviously not. It could be in smaller jobs and present some potential for years to come.<br>I think I just sharted myself. Thanks!
I'm surprised to have not seen more discussion of this score; I honestly think it represents some of the best music out of RCP in the past half-decade. Yeah, it still has the Journey to the Line / Time four-chord power anthem thing going on, but outside of those themes you have some really creative material that at times doesn't even feel stylistically RCP, and hell, even those structurally-simplistic themes are unusually well-orchestrated. And there's a real orchestra!Some of you may like this guy's cover of Brothers in Arms! Pretty epic, honestly. <br><br> com/watch?v=LCIY41hopq4This score has improved my mood on more than one occasion. Nancy Meyers needs to make another movie, so Hans can score it. lol.Hello great team of Hans Zimmer,<br><br>I was recently listening to "The Might of Rome" (Gladiator soundtrack) and I am craving to listen the long version of the piece around 2:38 - 2:48 (something like an oriental flute). Does it exist as a standalone composition? Is it inspired from some third party artist, if yes, can you please tell my which one?<br><br>Thanks!@Olive<br><br>Wallfisch's career unquestionably benefited from his involvement with Zimmer. He wouldn't have gotten a chance to work on blockbuster films like Dunkirk, Blade Runner 2049 without Zimmer's influence. Wallfisch is a very talented composer, but let's be honest here, his music doesn't immediately strikes anyone as a big action guy. Having Zimmer's name pushing you helps.
Hybrid, what do you admire more: Black Hawk Down or Tears of the Sun?"Elfman's score is like Whedon, horrendous & out of place."<br><br>Out of place, yes. Horrendous, no.Leagues above, and yet I doubt Ben will ever be able to write something like "Brothers In Arms" from Mad Max.<br><br>Comparing people is kinda useless...<br><br>The only who's right is Hans in the end, he knows when to use one and when to use the other... ;)@Edmund<br>Iím in the same boat. When I watch a movie I normally donít pay attention to the music unless itís really distinctive. As a stand alone listening experience I usually want to get music that fits a mood and can hold my interest throughout. Take Silvestriís Avengers score for example. The big statements of the main theme and some of the action cues are excellent. Unfortunately itís surrounded by generic underscore that slows the album down imo. But then you have TASM2, which constantly has something going on no matter what. I feel like thatís something which does relate to the directors, not so much the talent level of the composers.<br><br>@olive<br>Ben Wallfisch is LEAGUES ahead of JXL as a composer, partly because heís had years of experience in film composing. Hopefully his recent successes give him more high profile projects.<br><br>As for Justice League, I actually love that score, but I think the main issue is Elfman completely ignoring what came before and trying to force in the classic themes. Had he done his own spin on Zimmerís material there would a better connection to the previous ones.Elfman's score is like Whedon, horrendous & out of place.
@Olive: Is better because there is variety and orchestration, and i'm not a purist (i liked BvS, there is more complexity in it than in MoS), but Danny Elfman has more integrity in that score than in that two scores.He did!<br><br>The action material in "Do You Bleed?" is by XL! <br>Wallfisch has shown himself to be a superior composer to XL, let's face it. I do not even see why he's running after Zimmer since he's able to run a career himself.<br><br>@TheZimmerFan <br><br><But the score by Elfman is miles better than MoS and BvS (for those two, BvS is much interesting and better than MoS, which is only good)><br><br><br>The music is less simplistic and may please the purists, but, no, MoS and BvS are better by a small margin than JL by one factor: thematic material and characterization of the movie.  Elfman should have had more freedom to work on the themes he and Williams wrote.<br>It's a half-truth to everyone who makes up the RCP team, unfortunately. <br><br>But I honestly doubt that ANYONE wants to work with XL.<br><br>Snyder worked with him 3 times. 300, BvS and Man of Steel. Sometimes I even get the impression that he's always liked Tom's approach more than Zimmer's approach. See all the percussion and synths of all those scores that are far more present in the Xl field than Zimmer's.Got this today..well not my music type so pass it...

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Hans ZimmerLorne BalfeBenjamin WallfischAndrew Kawczynski
ComposerAdditional MusicAdditional MusicAdditional Music
Label: WaterTower Music
Length: 59'46 rating:        Not yet rated
Fans rating:     rate at 1 out of 5 rate at 2 out of 5 rate at 3 out of 5 rate at 4 out of 5 rate at 5 out of 5   2/5 (2475 votes)


  1. The Mole (5:35)
    Hans Zimmer (Sir Edward Elgar)
  2. We Need Our Army Back (6:28)
    Hans Zimmer
  3. Shivering Soldier (2:52)
    Hans Zimmer
  4. Supermarine (8:03)
    Hans Zimmer
  5. The Tide (3:48)
    Hans Zimmer (Sir Edward Elgar)
  6. Regimental Brothers (5:04)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe (Sir Edward Elgar)
  7. Impulse (2:36)
    Hans Zimmer
  8. Home (6:02)
    Hans Zimmer, Benjamin Wallfisch (Sir Edward Elgar)
  9. The Oil (6:10)
    Hans Zimmer
  10. Variation 15 (Dunkirk) (5:51)
    Benjamin Wallfisch, Hans Zimmer (Sir Edward Elgar)
  11. End Titles (Dunkirk) (7:12)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Benjamin Wallfisch (Sir Edward Elgar)
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Lincoln Clay reply Replies: 1 || 2018-03-15 21:15:30
Hybrid you know what, i just need, or we just need ticking clock. IMAX Prologue amazing score, Hans did firstly this one i know. Hans my GOD Hans my Lord, please release this score just this please, please my Lord.. Dunkirk IMAX Prologue is here. https: //

Ahmad2018-03-16 07:42:30
If only there was enough demand for this track to be released like there was for NTFC.
I love everything about it, ticking and thumping and some muted synths in the background.

I hope it gets released or leak someday. I tweeted at Lorne saying Hans should put out some unreleased Dunkirk tracks like Lorne did with GITS and he liked my tweet but that's it.

George reply Replies: 1 || 2018-03-15 15:34:51
Have any of you done Hans' Masterclass online? I'm considering getting it really just to see and understand his process better, but is it worth my money?

mpolonest1232018-03-15 16:57:28
I did it about a year ago and if you are a fan of Hans, or just want to get some great insight on film scoring in general, you should definitely check it out!

Mike (OTM) reply Replies: 1 || 2018-03-08 03:35:36
I've been on the more negative side of reactions to this score, but does anyone else find the "Shivering Soldier" cue just kind of captivating? It's an extremely simple piece, yet ó as simple Hans cues often do ó it just kind of manages to pull you in and make you feel exactly what Cillian Murphy's character is feeling. Maybe it's the drone underneath everything. I don't know. It's certainly not a masterpiece, but unlike some parts of the score (IMO), it really works exactly like it's meant to.

badbu2018-03-08 07:38:52
yep! it's an amazing cue! the complete score is a masterpiece for me.

Hybrid Soldier reply Replies: 22 || 2017-12-03 12:06:14
Full Dunkirk cuesheet (in alphabetical order) :

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Andy Page

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Andrew Kawczynski

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Benjamin Wallfisch, Lorne Balfe

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Benjamin Wallfisch

Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Satnam Ramgotra

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Alex Gibson

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Benjamin Wallfisch

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Andrew Kawczynski

Hans Zimmer, Benjamin Wallfisch

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Steve Mazzaro

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Ryan Rubin

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Andrew Kawczynski

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Andy Page

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Andrew Kawczynski

Hans Zimmer, Alex Gibson

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Satnam Ramgotra

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer, Benjamin Wallfisch

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

Hans Zimmer

badbu2017-12-03 12:22:00
WOW! Thanks :-)

Ian2017-12-03 13:36:19
I get the sense many of the above cues are variations of one another, but nonetheless it's cool to see that Hans seemingly did the bulk of the work here.

Ahmad2017-12-03 14:36:56
Thanks for cuesheet! "Sauerkraut Sauce" LOL!
"STRETCHER CARRY"... That's the one I want the most!

babdu2017-12-03 14:39:55
ich liebe Sauerkraut...aber was zum Teufel soll Sauerkraut Sauce sein? :D

Mike (OTM)2017-12-03 14:59:02
That's pretty interesting... I wouldn't have guessed that Zimmer did 95% of this alone.

Also, I never understood the logic that the film arrangement of these cues couldn't be put on album. Why not? Stitch two or three together at a time if need be. I think it would work fine.

...2017-12-03 15:40:03
I really hope we get a FYC score like we did for Interstellar. There's so much interesting stuff in the score that isn't on the OST.

Der-Profl2017-12-03 22:07:15
Is there a reason why the cuesheet is leaked now? Does this mean that we get the full soundtrack leaked in the next time? I hope so. Like Ahmad, I want to listen to "STRETCHER CARRY".

Hybrid Soldier2017-12-03 22:30:26
"Is there a reason why the cuesheet is leaked now?"


Because ASCAP finally added it to its website ? Mayyyyyyybe ?

Der-Profl2017-12-04 00:58:57
Haha. Sorry, I don't know how that all works with leaking information about soundtrack and scores. Dunkirk and Ghost In The Shell are the first ones, which I follow. (I don't know, if I can say that like that and you know what I mean.)

mpolonest123 2017-12-04 01:27:23

Are suites ever included on the cue sheets?

Hybrid Soldier2017-12-04 08:45:48
Cuesheet shows exactly what appears in the film, from the first to the last second of this film... Whatever was written for it but doesn't appear in it won't be in the cuesheet.

isildur2017-12-04 11:40:38
Want. Want. Want. It will be glorious if we get the whole thing.

...2017-12-04 12:43:44
We won't get a FYC version because WB has added the OST to their For your Consideration site. I wonder how this is even allowed, being as there's so much on this OST that isn't in the film (suites etc)

Medigo2017-12-04 13:00:10
well screw WB then
greedy bastards

...2017-12-04 13:22:20
Yeah why the hell would they upload the OST:/

Mike (OTM)2017-12-06 02:00:54
Anyone know what the chronological order of this would be?

Mike (OTM)2017-12-06 02:00:54
Anyone know what the chronological order of this would be?

badbu2017-12-08 07:52:35
The "alternate" version from "Oil" when Tom attacks the german plane oO it's soooo much better! <3 The extra strings, the ticking...gosh

Ahmad2017-12-08 09:58:03
I really love the variation of Supermarine that plays right before the torpedo scene. I'm guessing it's either HEINKEL 11 O'CLOCK or FARRIER ATTACKS HEINKEL.

I love the album but I wish we got more. So many good varations.
At least, I wish they would release STRETCHER CARRY like they did with NO TIME FOR CAUTION.

badbu2017-12-08 10:03:09
Ahmad you're so right :-)
Maybe we get the FYC :D

Ahmad2017-12-08 11:17:14
After watching the scene again, I'm sure it's HEINKEL 11 O'CLOCK.

@badhu Unfortunately, WB has been sending the commercial albums to critics and voters for Dunkirk and BR2049, so I kinda lost hope on an FYC unless things change.

Goodness Hans, do you have to do this to us on almost every movie? :D

Iamtommie2018-03-06 15:37:59
Anyone know a chronological order

Scorefan reply Replies: 11 || 2018-03-05 05:03:44
And once again, another nomination to Hans and he didn't win.

Anonymous2018-03-05 05:17:30
Second time he beat HZ

Kingfannypack is the Milfcommander2018-03-05 05:48:43
I haven't even listened to The Shape Of Water, or much Alexandre Desplat other than Harry Potter. Does Desplats score deserve it?

Everan2018-03-05 06:42:38

Iamtommie2018-03-05 09:55:12
Desplat's win for The Shape of Water is as it should be. But Zimmer should have won for Interstellar. That score was way better than The Grand Budapest Hotel. In my opinion Interstellar was a wel done and inventive score. The Grand Budapest Hotel was in my opion a fun score but not an score for an oscar win

Ds2018-03-05 10:08:33
Desplat's score is worth a listen if you're into that nostalgia mood, otherwise I think it's a non-event. It's your typical french sounding Desplat score, it goes well enough with the movie but doesnt do anything special. The exact same score for a non-oscar-bait movie wouldnt even have been nominated, but that's how it usually works :-)

JBSO992018-03-05 10:30:48
I agree with Iamtommie. Desplat's win this year was deserved (I say this because I didn't like Dunkirk that much). His score works really well inside the film and also outside of it, although it may get a bit repetitive for some.

But Zimmer's Interstellar should have won that year because his score was almost perfect and I would say is one of his best since Inception. Grand Budapest Hotel was really funny and it's also great but not better than Interstellar. Also, Desplat's scores are usually of the likes of the academy so he has more possibilities to be nominated and win, while Zimmer, well, you know, he does not get that much recognition in awards (not that he needs it anyway)

Fares2018-03-05 11:58:58
It looks that Oscar's community didn't like Electronic soundtracks and orchestral soundtrack always Was the First Choice(Except Gravity of Course)

Ds2018-03-05 13:01:22
@Fares: Gravity was the only year in a loooooong time where I agreed with the Academy on Best Original Score.
There's also The Social Network which weirdly enough managed to beat Inception and How To Train Your Dragon, while being the most electronics-driven score of the pack...

mpolonest123 2018-03-05 13:20:10
To be fair, The Shape of Water really did deserve it this year. Alexandre is a composer whoís never wowed me, but the score in context of the film was excellent. And yes, Hans should have won for Interstellar.

Edmund Meinerts2018-03-06 09:27:22
"The exact same score for a non-oscar-bait movie wouldnt even have been nominated, but that's how it usually works :-)"

The sooner everyone realizes this about the Academy, the sooner everyone can go to not giving a shit about it, like me. Hell, Desplat could have written the single greatest masterpiece of music in the history of humanity, but if it was attached to a badly-received blockbuster it wouldn't have a whisper of a chance of being nominated.

Randy Watson2018-03-06 15:20:21
How the hell is a film about a mute woman who has sex with an amphibian creature an Oscar bait film??

Score Fan reply Replies: 0 || 2018-03-06 14:12:11
Are you sure calling The Shape of Water Oscar-Bait makes sense? Have you followed Del Toro's career? This is the culmination of a long list of achievements and it just sounds a bit silly to call his film some sort of play for Oscar as it continues a very idiosyncratic form of engagement with fantasy. Desplat's score is part of this world as it captures both whimsy but also intertextual references. They both very much deserve the accolades.

FaresTdkr reply Replies: 1 || 2018-03-05 20:13:08
Something I've learned from Hans says "Steven Price" all team work, everything done is for the movie nothing whatever music you compose for the movie is relevant he only care how it looks...Hans never care about prizes he only care about the movie. So Balfe(Identity thief) Shut the hell up.

Steven Price my Favorite composer worked with Hans on Batman Begins....

Olive2018-03-05 23:10:40
this comment was directed to "Balfe", the nickname adopted by a troll that disturbed the peace of that forum.

superultramegaa reply Replies: 3 || 2018-03-05 21:16:45
Oh my god, Balfe got erased from existence! I'm not even joking, if you go to the site history and the pages he's commented on it's all gone! Normally I'd say freedom of speech, but that guy was making everyone miserable. Good job Hybrid! (I'm assuming).

Anyway about the Oscars. Yeah, I want Hans to be a more reputable composer, but Desplat deserved it over Dunkirk this year. If it was Interstellar, I'd say give it to Hans, but this time, Desplat's score just had more substance.

Olive2018-03-05 22:07:04
I dont understand.

superultramegaa2018-03-05 22:56:21
Please be more specific.

Olive2018-03-05 23:08:34
I read your comment on the phone and I was confused. Now with more calm I realized that you refer to Balfe the nickname and not to the composer! Excuse me!

Alex hamilton reply Replies: 0 || 2018-03-05 13:28:02
Desplat deserves academy award for shape of water and he earn it. In the past i loved zimmer scores like lion king or gladiator or last samurai and interstellar. But seriously after interstellar zimmer scores were nothing and i am truly disappointed whit his new scores and his wide choose of co composer which in my openion are useless !!! Iook at the criticizes openions for example which i read in wikipedia :
Christian Clemmensen of Filmtracks frequently criticizes Zimmer's constant use of ghostwriters and writing music using a "lowest common denominator" approach.

Kingfannypack is the Milfcommander reply Replies: 0 || 2018-03-05 05:02:10
Desplat won again

john reply Replies: 24 || 2018-02-19 18:27:54
again alexander desplat beats hans zimmer and won bafta !! why ?! maybe it is time for hans to write his scores all by himself not his all by his ghostwriters , and come up with a whole new idea like his old scores for example lion king that even beat 2 great works of thomas newman in oscar !!!
good luck

isildur2018-02-19 20:02:36
LOL. You clearly have no idea how Hans always worked like this, collaborating with people. There are no ghostwriters when everybody is credited.

ThePhantasm2018-02-19 21:58:48
Dude Dunkirk soundtrack wasn't even good, i love Hans but it should not of gotten nominated. Desplats music is clearly superior to Hans. well at least in these particular movies. I think honestly hans should of won for Interstellar when they announced desplat who had two nominations.... i was like what? but that's just my opinion.

ThePhantasm2018-02-19 21:58:49
Dude Dunkirk soundtrack wasn't even good, i love Hans but it should not of gotten nominated. Desplats music is clearly superior to Hans. well at least in these particular movies. I think honestly hans should of won for Interstellar when they announced desplat who had two nominations.... i was like what? but that's just my opinion.

Max Potcats2018-02-19 22:21:55
I'm sure the academy would love to know that Hans souldn't been nominated. The Dunkirk Score is a masterpiece, but as I said if you have a problem with the score that's because you have a problem with the movie itself.

Hybrid Soldier2018-02-19 22:43:28
"Desplats music is clearly superior to Hans."

That's a very dangerous thing to say around here... :P

JBSO992018-02-19 23:16:55
Desplat's music is more of the taste of all of this awards. He's a usual nominee and winner and it isn't strange that he beats up Dunkirk.

I personally prefer The Shape of Water over Dunkirk, but I must agree that Zimmer should have won for Interstellar a few years ago (but then, Desplat was there with two nominations so it was difficult for him to win)

ThePhantasm2018-02-20 03:28:26
No what i meant by better is for these respective films, not in general his music for The shape of water is better than what hans did in Dunkirk. That's what i meant

Edmund Meinerts2018-02-20 09:24:27
Shape of Water is a nice score, but let's not pretend for one second that its BAFTA win, likely Oscar win, any of these big awards really, has *anything* to do with the music. It's mostly about what films those scores are attached to (and, to a degree, about who wrote them). After all, a composer could write a phenomenal masterpiece and it still won't win a damn thing if it's attached to, say, the third entry of a big blockbuster franchise about pirates.

Waymann2018-02-20 10:00:51
Still don't know why Giacchino's War for the Planet of the Apes wasn't even nominated. I know not everything was new material but that score is still superior to The Shape of Water which is a great score but not brilliant, just the same Desplat sauce like we are used to.
I don't like all nominees this year, their safe and so predictable. I mean The Last Jedi ? Nothing new in that score... even the Post by John Williams is 10x better than what he did with The Last Jedi. Why not nominate that score if you really want to nominated John Williams.

Edmund Meinerts2018-02-20 10:24:14
I thought War for the Planet of the Apes was pretty boring (and kind of weird at times, like what's with the Morricone-style traveling theme, it didn't feel like it fit the movie or the rest of the score at all), but a lot of people seem to love it, so I know I'm alone in that opinion. I just prefer Giacchino when he's having fun, not that simple Lost-like emotional stuff he does in every. single. score.

Last Jedi is a fine score, but yeah, probably the least new material in any Star Wars score. It does a pretty good job of playing around with the old material though, not (only) rehashing. I see it a bit like Zanelli's Pirates score this year in that regard. I'd be kind of mad if it won just because of all the much, much better Star Wars scores that haven't. :p Then again I'd say the same about Desplat and Shape of Water. If he has to be nominated for one of his scores this year, why not Valerian? That score's way more creative and varied than Shape of Water. Or Godzilla instead of Grand Budapest Hotel, the year that he did win? And since we were talking about Giacchino earlier, if anything he's done is worth nominating, then why not Jupiter Ascending? Oh right, because it's about the movie, never the music...

I feel like this much talk about non-RCP scores at this website is some sort of party foul, so my bad guys!

Fares2018-02-20 11:09:20
Giacchino's War for the Planet of the Apes main theme is reused from super Mario Game just put it in google and you will be convinced why he shouldn't been nominated at all!

ThePhantasm 2018-02-20 17:22:27
@Fares wanna hear a fun fact about giacchinos score for war for the planet of the apes he copied john williams Kylo ren theme note for note. Listen to Exodus Wounds and then go and listen to Kylos theme. Literally note for note doesn't even try to hide it.

Mephariel2018-02-20 18:30:44
I really like War for the Planet of the Apes. Giacchino did a great job creating a score unique to the movie with great atmosphere. I am actually tired of "Giacchino having fun."

MrZimmerFan2018-02-20 18:49:21
Agreed, War for the Planet of the Apes is much better than Homecoming. IMHO.

John2018-02-20 19:08:57
Isildur , so if hans for example won an academy award for his amazing spiderman 2 he should share it with 11 other composers beacause all of them had credit , really??!! ( magnificent six and about 5 additional music composers )

JBSO992018-02-20 19:33:08
Giacchino's score in War for the planet of the Apes I think is on my top three scores of 2017, but the Oscars, BAFTAS, Golden Globes and so on would never give an award to a score like that because they (almost) always prefer scores like The Shape of Water (which is good and works great in context but it's not as great)

Edmund Meinerts2018-02-20 22:34:28
I'll acknowledge that maybe War/Apes is a more distinctive and accomplished score than Homecoming. I just find a lot of it not very gratifying to listen to. The first fifteen minutes in particular is a really tough slog. Homecoming on the other hand is a standard typical Giacchino score, no surprises whatsoever, but it's more enjoyable for me (although the action music outside of a couple cues is really generic, I prefer the playful stuff in the first half of the score, and the main theme is pretty catchy and memorable).

Also, where the hell is Kylo Ren's theme in War/Apes?

ThePhantasm 2018-02-20 23:28:50
Dude go to youtube type in Exodus wounds from the war for the planet of the apes soundtrack then go and search for Kylo Ren theme it's the first video called kylo ren suite. Literally note for note he copied and pasted Williams kylo ren theme.

ThePhantasm 2018-02-20 23:32:36
Don't believe me? Here's Kylo rens theme listen from :30 and forward

Now here exodus wounds, from the beginning you can hear it but it becomes more apparent at 1:45 and onward

George2018-02-20 23:41:46
Oh wow youíre right those are very similar... almost too similar lol. I thought you were referring to that low brass motif for Kylo Ren amd also didnít see where you got that from, but you definitely have a point.

ThePhantasm 2018-02-21 01:40:53
That's all i was trying to do is make a point lol i still can't believe I'm the only one who's noticed that.

J.S.B.2018-02-21 05:33:33
Well, to give also my 2 cents to this thread:

Zimmer has a high reputation at the acadamy owing to certain scores from the past...I fear he could even solely knock against an old cooking pot from is mum during the whole time... if he should do it for a Nolan-movie (but maybe for other Hollywood-blockbusters too) he will get his nomination for sure. Zimmer-Fans will call it "creative", "brave" and "innovative".

Would be interesting if "only" Wallfisch or Balfe could have got the credits for Dunkirk. If one of them would have the nomination now as well? Zimmer laughed already his head off with the "Preachers Wife" nomination and could be, with this one too.

Donīt get me wrong...I loved/love many Zimmer-scores from the past and Iīm not just a hater, but the music he has done for the last 2-3 blockbusters were not the Zimmer-quality for me for which I had appreciated him once.

Edmund Meinerts2018-02-21 09:17:15
Okay, Phantasm, I can hear where you're coming from. But I'd argue that the tone and harmonies of the two pieces are so completely different that this is a coincidence.

Balfe2018-02-22 14:59:41
Dunkirk is a sound experiment and not a score. It is rather sad to see a fine composer like Benjamin Wallfisch deal with this nationalistic nonsense.

NTNB reply Replies: 13 || 2018-01-25 19:03:46
So, Zimmerís scoring X-Men: Dark Phoenix. What?!

badbu 2018-01-25 19:31:22
YES! :-)

Olive2018-01-25 19:57:28
Apparently he does not keep his promises. Does he return to DC?

George2018-01-25 20:58:33
Wait seriously?! Wow definitely surprising (in the best way)

FaresTdkr2018-01-26 08:27:20
Well Hans never said that he will stop scoring superheroes movies ever he just did like to score two kind of batman movies in the same time I mean two themes for the same character in brief time.

Waymann2018-01-26 09:12:04
I don't get it, first he announces he will retire from all those awful superhero movies we get stuffed up with these days and now he returns already after 2 years to a mediocre superhero movie ? I don't get it.

Lynk2018-01-26 11:27:13
This one doesn't have any of those characters for whom he created a tune in the past. I am sure they pay good money too. Why shouldn't he? :-)

...2018-01-26 12:11:29
In fact, when Zimmer first announced his retirement, he acknowledged that it probably wouldnít be permanent ó as long as he could find a good script, he told Inverse. ďRon Howard actually said something very smart to me,Ē Zimmer recalled. ďHe said, ĎDonít say you will never do a superhero movie again, wait for somebody to turn up with an amazing script for a superhero movie.í And I suppose thatís what Iím saying: Can I please have the amazing script?Ē

Meta2018-01-26 14:16:57
Sorry but I dont know why this is being nominated...It's derivative repetitive nonsense. Does it service the film? Sure...110%. But as a score I dont really see what's so great about it...

Joshua2018-01-26 19:50:01
@Meta That makes no sense what you just said.

ďDoes it service the film? Sure...110%. But as a score I don't really see what's so great about it...ď

A film score solely exists because of the film itís attached too. Without it, their would be no music. Itís main and MOST important function is to serve the film and elevate it. You said the score serviced the film ď110%Ē for you. So then doesnít that make it a great SCORE? I think you meant to say, as music on itís own, you donít see whatís so great about it.

Ian2018-01-26 21:35:39
"I don't get it, first he announces he will retire from all those awful superhero movies we get stuffed up with these days and now he returns already after 2 years to a mediocre superhero movie ? I don't get it."

To put it simply: Hans often seems to care more about saying things that sound good than things that end up being true. Just look at his claim that he worked on the Nolan Batman films for twelve years; given The Dark Knight Rises came out in 2012, this would mean he was working on Batman Begins in 2001, even though Nolan wasn't even hired until 2003.

Max Potcats2018-01-26 23:29:53
Ian, don't leave logic aside, Hans said that Batman was 12 years of his life when he was talking about BvS back in 2016, I let you do the math (2016 - 2012 = 2004 :P ). Sure he finished the score in 2012 with Rises, but I think these kind of work doesn't leave you like that, he composed Aurora after he oficialy finished to work on TDKR, he was still working on for his tour and he was working on another batman movie so I think we can agree that he didn't cast his batman work with TDKR in 2012.

And I think he is tired to see the 'classical superhero movie' and really wants something fresh to work on. As the Wonder Woman character in BvS, maybe he found something cool in the Dark Ph&#339;nix that we don't found on ever superhero script and get inspired.

meta2018-01-27 02:26:17

Just because I said it services the movie 110%, which it does, does not mean that I will remember it or care to stick in it my playlist in the forseeable future. As a standalone listening experience? Nah...

nvictor2018-02-09 12:10:10
well you guys know Hans? "they made him do it" : )

Kingfannypack is the Milfcommander reply Replies: 6 || 2018-02-08 19:07:02
Still havenít seen that expanded Dunkirk score Iíve heard weíll get...

.... 2018-02-08 19:47:21
And who exactly is supposed to give this out? No wonder people who have these scores like to hold onto them....

Ahmad2018-02-08 21:14:49
LOL! I guess he meant an FYC release.
WB sent the commercial soundtrack album to voters so no complete score.
I don't even know how something like that would exist to be honest. Nolan and Zimmer weren't joking when they said that the score is one 106 minute long track.
But there is a cuesheet so I'm really confused.

mpolonest123 2018-02-08 21:20:04
@ahmad I donít think they meant a literal 106-minute cue. It would be impossible to record. Going by the cue sheet itís a bunch of shorter cues that bleed into each other to form the film score. Even then I think there are one or 2 pauses in the music, although Iíve only seen the movie twice so Iím not 100% on that.

Ahmad2018-02-08 23:16:05
@mpolonest123 It's true about the pauses. The score kinda gets divided into 4 tracks:
1. Beginning to Collins' rescue
2. Home to train
3. Variation 15
4. End Titles

The reason why I believe it's an actual long cue:
Nolan said in a Q&A that they lay tracked every sound in the score and they didn't cut tracks or cues but used automation graphs to bring sounds in and out, and when ever the picture changed the music had to change in other places drastically. Also, not to forget how crazy the tempo tracks are on this film. It's constantly changing.
Hans seems to be quite secretive about the process though.

mpolonest1232018-02-08 23:45:55
From some interviews it seems like Hans ďmappedĒ out the score, most likely with a long demo. But yeah, there are still a lot of things they havenít told us.

kek2018-02-09 04:20:20
you can still just put all of the tracks together like usual if you just plan for it, fading them into one track after everything is done

nvictor reply Replies: 20 || 2017-12-24 02:28:04
dunkirk is far superior to interstellar, period. tired of you guys. please no more mention of interstellar on dunkirk's page. hope dunkirk wins. in my heart it did. just saving now to get a old school vinyl player and a a vinyl version. happy holidays : )

James (now James Callahan)2017-12-24 11:46:24
I think that Greenwood will take this prize for home.

Edmund Meinerts2017-12-24 13:28:51
I can't agree.

Dunkirk is a functional score that does the one thing it sets out to do (add tension) and basically nothing else. Interstellar is so much more complex and interesting, has so many more emotional facets to it. It's just as tense as Dunkirk when the scene calls for it, but it can also portray the vastness of space, humanity's triumph and ingenuity in the face of forces far stronger than it, the intimacy of family bonds...There's so much more going on in that score than in Dunkirk, which basically shakes you by the shoulders for 90 minutes, screaming "ARE YOU TENSE YET???" in your ears.

Medigo2017-12-24 13:31:09
eh I'd say half of the score is about tenseness
and the other half (tracks like The Tide) is about despair

Ahmad2017-12-24 15:17:46
The way some judge scores here is skewed. Comparing two different scores for two very different movies.

To me, it's not valid criticism. Nolan wanted to make a movie that is not sentimental or theatrical therefore he instructed Zimmer to strip the score of emotion (for the most part) and it's clever. When Nimrod played, it was so effective because the movie was very tense and dark and they you're hit with this very uplifting cue. The score is all about tension and horror, and that was the intention and it totally works.

You cannot compare a space epic with a family drama at its heart to a WWII action thriller that almost plays as a horror film.

I'd like to point out that some people are judging this score like they would judge a pop album. "It's not interesting" or "It doesn't have enough melodies". Composers don't write their scores thinking about the soundtrack album and what listeners will think of it. The main purpose is how it serves the film. The soundtrack album/listening experience is a bonus thing.

Mephariel2017-12-25 01:30:16
Dunkirk is not even in the same league as Interstellar. Interstellar is quite possible the best minimalist score in the last 10 years, and one of the best scores of all time.

Dunkirk is an effective score within the film and that is all I can say about it.

dunkirk vs interstellar2017-12-26 05:44:38
lets acknowledge both films are different fingers of the same hand.
one is emotional and other is suspense, period

Boldizar2018-01-15 15:22:38
@Edmund Meinerts Hit the nail on the head. Dunkirk is great as a functional aid to the film, but doesn't extend beyond that role like Interstellar does. Interstellar's score is a masterwork. It is functional as an aid to the film, but it speaks the emotion and events of the film just as well on its own (and reordered).

Jor-El2018-01-24 01:40:05
"The thing that I'm proudest about Dunkirk is you can't separate it from the film."
- Hans Zimmer, GQ

Mike (OTM)2018-01-25 18:43:06
Dunkirk is superior to Interstellar? I can respect your opinion, but I don't see how you got there.

Dunkirk is a functionally-efficient, overly-simplified score with a bunch of wailing siren sounds and escalating tension ó it's devoid of a central motif, borrowing its emotional core from a 19th century English composer. It builds and builds and builds for an hour and a half, then gives us Nimrod to cap things off. Does it work? Sure. I was moved precisely in the ways Nolan and Zimmer wanted me to be moved.

Interstellar, on the other hand, is emotionally resonant despite its scaled-back style of writing, it makes brilliant use of the pipe organ, it has several standout moments that you can't help remembering (Cornfield Chase? Coward? Mountains? No Time for Freaking Caution!), and it both elevates its film and works beautifully on its own.

Interstellar is Zimmer writing from his heart, by his own admission. Dunkirk is Zimmer working against himself every step of the way to deliver the experience in tension that Nolan wanted Dunkirk to have.

Ds2018-01-25 20:24:11
@Mike OTM: you summed it up perfectly, I can only applaud!

superultramegaa2018-01-25 22:21:56
Exactly Mike and Edmund. Anyone can listen to Interstellar and enjoy it on its own. Without the film, it's still an emotional ride of suspense, horror, and heartfelt. It has melodies, it has themes/motifs, it has subtle features, like the beats in Coward, actually spelling out S.T.A.Y. in Morse code.

Dunkirk serves the film, has very little you can analyze about it, most people would be bored hearing it outside the film, and only 1 or 2 themes/motifs. Maybe there's more, but it's sure as hell not noticeable. Interstellar had a chance of winning, and probably should have, but this one does little more than do its job. If it wins, by that logic, Deepwater Horizon should have won an Oscar for best original score.

Ahmad2018-01-25 22:42:22
But does that really matter? It's not a pop album. It's a film score. Its sole purpose is to serve the film. You listening to it on it's own is a luxury.
I understand that a lot of you want more melodies and more traditional score but those exist already. I'm one of the people who enjoy concepts and sound design and textures. I love all the layers and all the new and creative sounds Hans and co. come up with in addition to the simple melodies/themes/motifs that hit harder than some of the micky mouse scores out there.

People complain about the lack of themes from Hans' latest two scores. I counted about 10 themes in BR2049.

I also feel like people are going about scores the wrong way. First watch the movie, you like the music? Get the album and listen to it. Film scores are not made for you to enjoy themselves. That doesn't happen all the time. Interstellar and Dunkirk are two completely different movies from two different genres. It's like comparing THE LEGO BATMAN MOVIE to THE REVENANT.

Just my two cents.

Mike (OTM)2018-01-25 23:10:28
@Ahmad, I see what you're saying, and I wouldn't mind more scores like Dunkirk...if Hans were scoring more films these days. But he's hardly doing any projects at the moment. When his only big score for the first time in a while (and for a little while to come) is a sound-design-tension-score, I don't think it's unreasonable to be a bit disappointed.

I don't dislike Dunkirk. It did what it set out to do, and more power to it. But if these is what we have to look forward to from Zimmer for the next few years, I may have to pass on his next few scores. That being said, Blue Planet II had a nice theme to it, and I'm looking forward to his re-tread of The Lion King.

superultramegaa2018-01-25 23:30:33
Ok, music itself is built on motifs/themes. Even in rap, the background may be the same for most of it, but people listen to whatever themes/stories are being told in the lyrics. Music is about telling a story. In any genre, even pop. Film score is meant to tell a story, even more so than the other genres. Look at the greats everyone loves: Lion King, Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean, any John Williams score, Batman '89, Every Spider-Man score from 2002 onwards, even Hans Zimmer's less melodic stuff like The Dark Knight Trilogy and Interstellar.

Every one of these scores, and what every good score should do, is tell the story with the movie. The music should progress with the characters, and every motif should signal a specific event/story beat happening. You don't necessarily have to go crazy and break down every theme/motif throughout the film series like Howard Shore, but the music needs to tell the film's story, alongside the film. It should be the film's story, communicated differently. There are films like Steamboy and D-War that I've never seen and the music gives me enough to understand the basics of the story.

I listen to Dunkirk and I think "Wow! Something tense is going on!" Then I think that again, and again, and again, until the ending tracks where I'm thinking, "Ok something inspirational is happening- ohiguessit'sover." Sure it serves as tense noise, but does it tell a story? I'm going to say no. I haven't seen the movie but I've heard all of the spoilers, and there's much more than tense action going on for the entire movie. Sure it works, but is that enough?

I'll always remember this review of Deepwater Horizon's score. The basics of it was "Yes the music has to serve the film, but that's the bare minimum. After you get past the basics of that, you have to show your own vision, you have to contribute." Scores like Dunkirk and Deepwater are the equivalent of what I did for gym class. I showed up, I did what I was told. I left. I'm not saying Steve and Hans are lazy assholes, because they both usually do great work, and work their asses off, even for scores I don't like. But as a composer, you can't do nothing but create noise for the film so the audience isn't bored. You have to tell the story in a way only you can. That's my view on "its sole purpose is to serve the film."

Also... micky mouse scores? What is that even supposed to mean? Disney is not the only company that has melodic scores for most of its films.

Gotham Rogue2018-01-25 23:37:21
@superultramegaa mickey mousing is a film composing term for when the music matches the action literally. If a character runs upstairs, then the music rises, stuff like that. Itís called mickey mousing because the early films that used the technique guessed it, Mickey Mouse cartoons.

superultramegaa2018-01-25 23:51:16
Ah, ok. I don't think film scores have to do that. In fact sometimes that can come across as annoying. Yeah, that technique is not important to me.

Ahmad2018-01-26 00:09:00
@Mike (OTM) I understand. I think you shouldn't give up on his next scores. Remember that Dunkirk is the result of what Nolan wanted. Nolan specifically didn't want a melodic score even though they actually recorded a more traditional score but it didn't work and they scrapped it. So it depends on what the future directors want. It's a collaboration.

I think this score still tells a story. Yes, the main theme here is the race against time. The story here is quite nuanced. It's not always about tension. You get fear, loss, desperation, melancholy. Listen to "The Tide" (one of my favorite tracks on the album and one of my favorite sequences from the movie).

It wouldn't make sense if you haven't seen the movie. Dunkirk is designed to feel like a 106 minute 3rd act. The intention is for it to be as intense as possible. Not to mention its unusual complex structure. I always tell people to think of Dunkirk as a horror film rather a war/drama film and that to me explains the music. Also, Nolan wanted the music to be deprived of emotion as much as possible.

By the way, the soundtrack album should be thought of as a selection of some of the highlights of the score (for those who haven't seen the movie yet).

About Mickey Mousing, I couldn't have explained it better than @Gotham Rogue

superultramegaa2018-01-26 00:58:52
Hey, glad you could find something interesting in the music. I didn't. But you enjoy it, if you actually have legitimate reasons for liking it, and you understand why you like it. Also, good for you for actually taking criticism, applying it, and using it to respond. You might think it's obvious and not a big deal that you did so, but it's amazing and annoying how often people don't do that.

I think this type of score just isn't my thing. I'll always love melodic scores, or Dark Knight type semi-melodic ones. These just aren't entertaining to me. Whether I've seen the movie or not.

Ahmad2018-01-26 01:45:03
Well, people (especially on the internet) can be quite defensive and quite aggressive to others. It's always nice to have a conversation about music.

Art is subjective. I'm pretty sure Hans will return to do more melodic scores but it has to be appropriate for the project. Plus, he was busy with the tour in 2016 and 2017 so hopefully more projects to come.

rockhound2018-01-26 09:10:31

i haven't seen Dunkirk, but Deepwater Horizon. the blu-ray also has a making of, where peter berg and steve jablonsky talk about the music. berg just wanted the music for tension. he didn't want a melodic hollywood score, because the story is based on a true event and he wanted to create a real feeling for the audience. like they are in the middle of the action, which happened for real. a melodic orchestral hollywood score would have been out of place there, at least for bergs intention. you also don't hear the last score track from the album in the film, because of that reason. just this guitar motive at the beginning of the movie.

Kingfannypack is the Milfcommander reply Replies: 1 || 2018-01-24 21:17:01
So we should expect to see a FYC or expanded/complete/ReordingbSessions score soon?

badbu2018-01-25 07:51:42
i dont think so. The FYC Score is the "standard" Score.

Mikkel reply Replies: 34 || 2018-01-16 16:13:22
is there a complete score out there? the score is so amazing!

MaxPotcats2018-01-23 14:14:34
If it's nominated for the Oscar, the complete score will be released. So it should be out these weeks.

Badbu2018-01-23 14:34:11
YES HANS!!! The second Oscar is COMMING! :D

Edmund Meinerts2018-01-23 14:39:56
I'd like Hans to win another Oscar but please, not for this.

Ahmad2018-01-23 14:57:17
The score is brilliant. It does its purpose very well and it is an essential part of the movie. It's also the most creative of the bunch with the way it was recorded and edited.

badbu2018-01-23 15:06:28
yep ahmad! 100% right

George2018-01-23 15:10:31
Well it has officially been nominated. Fingers crossed for the complete score now

Ahmad2018-01-23 15:21:37
@badbu &#128077;

I honestly don't know how a complete score is going to work. They weren't kidding when they said the music is done like one long track.

What I understood from a Q&A with Nolan is that they didn't do it the usual way which means there are cues that are cut together / exist as segments. This was done in a different way where to create such cues, they used automation graphs to bring the layers in and out. Very complex.

One of the reasons why I think this deserves to win so many awards.

Anonymous2018-01-23 15:26:58
I hope Dunkirk wins just to make the so-called "reviewers" and those who say it isn't music, more frustrated and annoyed.

Ahmad2018-01-23 15:29:53
*That was a thumbs up but it didn't work :D

^This how I feel lol.

badbu2018-01-23 15:30:39
@Ahmad i only need "The Oil (Film Version)" :D Then i'll be happy :D

Edmund Meinerts2018-01-23 15:34:56
I hope it doesn't win if for no other reason than so we don't have to go through 5 years of Dunkirk temp tracks (although if 12 Strong is anything to go by, too late).

George2018-01-23 15:38:44
Here's an interesting opinion: I want Hans to win this one so that he DOESN'T continue making music like this. Sure its functional, but if he could reinvent the melodic score again and get back to writing memorable melodies I'd be pretty happy. He won for Lion King and then essentially abandoned that tone of music which transitioned into the Crimson Tide/The Rock sound... so maybe, just maybe, if he wins this year he'll completely reinvent his sound again and give us something both melodically memorable but also be a total game changer in terms of modern scores.

AndrewP2018-01-23 15:49:26
Edmund - gets you facts right please . 12 Strong was written before Dunkirk

Edmund Meinerts2018-01-23 16:09:39
Source? I find that hard to believe considering the release dates. Even if it is true, Balfe might have been concurrently working on Dunkirk and brought over some of the ideas. I find it spectacularly improbably that he and Hans just HAPPENED to come up with the same ideas at the same time.

MaxPotcats2018-01-23 16:44:21
Well, the credits say that Supermarine or the oil are pure Zimmer, and also the 3 first track I think. So Balfe helped him to develop some ideas during his tour but the majority of the score is Hans' work.
And it does deserve an Oscar. I never heard a score like that.. If you have a problem with the score I think it comes from the script. A classical melodical music wouldn t work for this film i think.

Mephariel2018-01-23 17:42:13
Doesn't deserve an Oscar. Hans Zimmer is my favorite composer but if he didn't win for Interstellar, he shouldn't win for this.

I can seriously say that I object this score winning based on that principle. This winning over Interstellar just isn't right.

Ds2018-01-23 17:53:40
Edmund, in all honesty what are the similarities between 12 Strong and Dunkirk? I know both scores and fail to see how they connect.

Ahmad2018-01-23 18:10:44
I've only heard the suite Hybrid made. The only similarity I was aware of is the siren-like sound.

People don't realize how difficult scoring Dunkirk was. Just because you love Interstellar (I do too - it's my favorite HZ score) but that doesn't mean Dunkirk doesn't deserve to win.

AndrewP2018-01-23 18:10:55
Edmund - the release dates do not matter . Check out Balfeís Facebook page and you will see he was recording 12 Strong early last year .

Peter2018-01-23 18:40:51
Edmund - how do you think Zimmer wrote Dunkirk when he was on a world tour !!!Congratulations to Ben, Lorne also .

Ahmad2018-01-23 19:24:57
Hans finished the bulk of the score before he went on tour, you could find an interview where he himself says so.
Ben worked solely on Variation 15.
Scroll down on this page and you'll find the full cuesheet with the credits.

Olive2018-01-23 20:39:43
Balfe's hiring came out in May, when Dunkirk's production was already at the end. No contest.

filmmusicreporter. com/

Miguel2018-01-23 22:39:11
Olive that is when it was announced !!! Not when he did it

Olive2018-01-23 23:15:16
I understand, but it does not make sense.
You're arguing that the score for a movie released in January this year was produced before of the score of a movie that went to theaters in July. If Balfe started working on "12 strong" a year before the movie release, the same can be said of Dunkirk. It is easy to infer that the Dunkirk's score has been working since the middle of 2016! Or even before, because of the tours that Zimmer has done.
The music/sound design, even being simple, was not made and recorded between January and May of last year.

superultramegaa2018-01-24 01:41:38
I'm with Edmund in that I'd love for Hans to win more Oscars, but not this score. I feel like even Blade Runner 2049 is more deserving of an award than this. Sure, it works great in the film, but that shouldn't be reason enough for an Oscar. I feel like Desplat's nominated score is more deserving than this one.

"But this one has a unique sound and recording!"

Okay... a lot of scores have that. A lot of Zimmer's work has that. Doesn't make them all masterpieces.

"But we have to spite those evil reviewers who hate this score!"

Why do you let their opinion get in the way of your enjoyment? If you love it enough, the critics' opinions should only make you enjoy it more because you see something in it they don't.

I agree with George in that Hans needs to go back to a melodic sound. I don't think whether this score wins or not will change Hans' mind on that, but I do want his next Oscar winner to mean something other than, "Oh cool! I won this award because I made weird sounds!" (Which by the way, involves things like programming and a lot of other technical adjustments that have nothing to do with Hans' composing ability).

Kingfannypack is the Milfcommander2018-01-24 06:37:45
All those people who complain that Hans isn't sticking to more traditional scores forget that at heart, hes a synth man who loves his synthesizers and keyboards. Hans is just as much as a musical artist as Bowie or Paul Mccartney, in the sense that he goes through musical trends and his style adapts or changes. That's just the way it is, enjoy it for what it is.

Crucify me for comparing a human to David Bowie!

Mike2018-01-24 12:30:26
Olive the problem is to me at least 12 Strong sounds very like 13 Hours. That then totally messes your argument up !13 Hours must be nearly 3 years old now.

Edmund Meinerts2018-01-24 12:49:19
What if I told you it was possible for a score to sound like two different things sometimes?

Max Potcats2018-01-24 13:41:28
That's why the album is almost only suites and not the real score from the movie I guess.

Olive2018-01-24 15:20:06
"13 hours" sounds like Black Hawk Down (2001), The Thin Red Line (1999) and Tears of Sun (2002). The first track of the score is a carbon copy of the Prince of Egypt theme (1998). What do you guess? They were composed even before Balfe worked with Zimmer.

What's more likely? Zimmer look through the three scores he composed in the past or look at the latest war score produced by Balfe?
The problem here is that you want to elevate Balfe the category of composer wronged of everything that comes out in Rcp these days. Transformers 5? Balfe was a ghostwriter here. The Crown? RGW did not even bother to write a single note. Do you know all Zimmer scores for the last 10 years? This man is an old bastard, Balfe has been carrying him on his back for years.

If Balfe had made up half of the score as in KFP3, that would already be known to all of us. Hybrid does not hide anything. Nor is there any reason to do so. These reactions are normal and understandable to some extent. Zanelli is another composer who has very ambiguous credits (he made the arrangement of the current theme of Pirates of the Caribbean! And many of the themes known in the franchise were co-composed, arranged or produced by him!) The same can be said of Balfe in several other situations, but not in Dunkirk.

It's simple. 13 hours is a regular score, 12 strong is not the type of music I like to listen to, not even Dunkirk, but there is no reason to create discussion about who came up with the idea first. It's like to say that Jablonsky created the sound of the Transformers when there were already King Arthur, Tears of the Sun, Crimson Tide and The Rock. Or that Djawadi created the sound of Game of Thrones when we already had Gladiator, Pirates, King Arthur and The Last Samurai out there as well. Or that the current DreamWorks animation style is not derived from the animation scores made by Powell and HGW.

I know all this is a result of the fact that they have all worked together for so long. Their styles come together and at the same time this is the style of production that is asked by the directors and producers to them. But 12 strong is not original, Dunkirk is not either, and 13 Hours has never been.

Olive2018-01-24 15:20:07
"13 hours" sounds like Black Hawk Down (2001), The Thin Red Line (1999) and Tears of Sun (2002). The first track of the score is a carbon copy of the Prince of Egypt theme (1998). What do you guess? They were composed even before Balfe worked with Zimmer.

What's more likely? Zimmer look through the three scores he composed in the past or look at the latest war score produced by Balfe?
The problem here is that you want to elevate Balfe the category of composer wronged of everything that comes out in Rcp these days. Transformers 5? Balfe was a ghostwriter here. The Crown? RGW did not even bother to write a single note. Do you know all Zimmer scores for the last 10 years? This man is an old bastard, Balfe has been carrying him on his back for years.

If Balfe had made up half of the score as in KFP3, that would already be known to all of us. Hybrid does not hide anything. Nor is there any reason to do so. These reactions are normal and understandable to some extent. Zanelli is another composer who has very ambiguous credits (he made the arrangement of the current theme of Pirates of the Caribbean! And many of the themes known in the franchise were co-composed, arranged or produced by him!) The same can be said of Balfe in several other situations, but not in Dunkirk.

It's simple. 13 hours is a regular score, 12 strong is not the type of music I like to listen to, not even Dunkirk, but there is no reason to create discussion about who came up with the idea first. It's like to say that Jablonsky created the sound of the Transformers when there were already King Arthur, Tears of the Sun, Crimson Tide and The Rock. Or that Djawadi created the sound of Game of Thrones when we already had Gladiator, Pirates, King Arthur and The Last Samurai out there as well. Or that the current DreamWorks animation style is not derived from the animation scores made by Powell and HGW.

I know all this is a result of the fact that they have all worked together for so long. Their styles come together and at the same time this is the style of production that is asked by the directors and producers to them. But 12 strong is not original, Dunkirk is not either, and 13 Hours has never been.

AndrewP2018-01-24 15:53:26
But Olive , Hybrid doesnít know everything !

Olive2018-01-24 17:40:22
And who among us knows more than he? ;)

Michael2018-01-24 20:15:35
Me !

Hardy reply Replies: 0 || 2018-01-24 11:45:51
where can i find the cue sheets? thx

Anonymous reply Replies: 6 || 2018-01-13 16:24:49
Excuse me , would you please explain what is the additional music ? And dose all of the composers have some other composers to write additional music for their project ?

Mandarin2018-01-13 17:30:05
The main composer hires a team of other composers which may work on extra themes. This is the addiional music. But hiring these people is not necessary

Mephariel2018-01-13 21:54:55
Nearly every composer in Hollywood uses ghostwriters. Horner, Elfman, Beltrami, you name it.

Olive2018-01-14 01:22:54
I've never heard of Horner or Desplat, but Beltrami, Tyler, Doyle, McCreary, Elfman, JNH, all the composers of the Zimmer team and even Williams have additional composers listed or not on CD credits.

The role of the additional composer is very clear. He writes what the lead composer does not write because of lack of time. Delivery time is short and there is a lot of work involved in producing a score. Several professionals are involved in the process. And there are composers who grab a lot more work than they can do alone. Bear McCreary is an example. The man works on several television shows at the same time and still finds time to write music for movies. And the guy has a family (children need attention xD). It is almost impossible for him to control everything himself. The same goes for the others.

Anonymous2018-01-14 18:23:25
Thank you very much for your answers. Because i never saw other composers like wiliams or elfman credit other composers i had misunderstanding that only hans has additional music. Thank you again

Olive2018-01-14 21:18:20
The ghostwriter's identification on the soundtrack is subjective. Elfman, for example, gives credit for additional composer (the best known are Steve Bartek and Debora Lurie, now in JL Geoff Zanelli and Pinar Toprak have been credited so, and there are various situations like these), Zimmer gives credit as an additional composer as well , but sometimes masks the name of one or another composer by designating it under the function "ambient designer" and "additional arrangements". And Williams gives orchestrator credit as well as Goldsmith (since the two are musicians per lineup the contribution here is far less than in the cases of Zimmer and Elfman which are songs without technical training), and that works best for them.

oliver2018-01-15 00:17:01
# who are musicians***

Max Potcats reply Replies: 2 || 2017-12-28 01:53:04
This is two differents movies with two differents tones, we can just note how well Interstellar can be warm and emotional and how well Dunkirk is tension and suspense. Hans excels at both so it's hard to choose one best but obviously they arn't ment to be compare so can we stop this pointless debat here?
However, it deserve an Oscar as Interstellar, but will be ignored (as Interstellar)?

badbu2017-12-28 07:37:56
i don't care for what...but he has to get his second oscar!!! and i think dunkirk has good chances :-)

linus2018-01-14 17:58:24
YEEEESSSSS!!!! Hans has to win the Oscar. I mean: Maybe this soundtrack is not beautiful. But it is so intense and it makes the movie so much better. The music is just perfect.

R reply Replies: 7 || 2018-01-08 06:36:31
Lost to shape of water..Guess the jury has listening disabilities

Edmund Meinerts2018-01-08 09:42:41
Shape of Water is a lovely score.

MrZimmerFan2018-01-08 11:33:54
Agreed with Edmund

Mephariel2018-01-08 18:41:27
Shape of Water is a better score than Dunkirk.

k2018-01-09 04:46:24
i cant even think of a single person who even bothered to listen to that score

HZ fan2018-01-09 07:25:39
Agreed, If you are fan of shape of water, donít post it on Dunkirk forum

Edmund Meinerts2018-01-09 08:48:49
I wouldn't say I'm a "fan" of it exactly, but there's nothing wrong with it winning. It's a fine score, not a masterpiece, but by the standards of scores that usually win awards it's perfectly okay. As for Mr "k", what a stupid statement considering that the three replies above you clearly are from people who did, in fact, listen to that score.

Ian2018-01-09 09:29:22
^ LOL, classic Edmund (intended as a compliment, btw)

I've not listened to Shape of Water, but Dunkirk (although it's growing on me) is blatantly not award material IMO; it plays much more like a standalone experimental piece than a film score - a bit like Inception, but with far less substance.

Speaking of which, some of the clicking/clanging effects in cues like The Mole sound to be almost directly lifted from some of the ambient cues from Inception.

Gotham Rogue reply Replies: 2 || 2018-01-08 07:14:10
Does anyone think if a (more) complete score had been created for FYC purposes that Dunkirk would have had a better chance of winning best score at the Golden Globes? Because purely based on album experience, Shape of Water is obviously a better listen. That being said, a complete score of Dunkirk would have made a huge difference; even the first 10-15 minutes of score would have been quite a good listen compared to the first 10-15 minutes of the official soundtrack release.

Gotham Rogue2018-01-08 07:15:51
And I'm sure voters watch the film as well when deciding on best score, but they must use the included CD to some extent or it wouldn't be given in voting packets.

mpolonest123 2018-01-08 17:22:49
You are absolutely right. The album edit for Dunkirk is such a disappointment, especially considering it is a score that not only is designed to compliment its film but work as one long musical piece. You take one section out (as Nolan said regarding the editing in film) you ruin the whole. Honestly I wish they wouldnít have even put out an album if they werenít going to use the whole score.

As for the GG win, Iím happy Shape of Water got it. Itís a very strong score, nothing groundbreaking but definitely better than say, The Last Jedi.

nvictor reply Replies: 1 || 2018-01-07 01:33:19
just listened to Hans podcast about Dunkirk. it confirmed a few things i suspected.

Hans started afresh __but__ he took with him everything he has gathered on his score making journey. writer Stephen King said one should build a toolbox. Hans has a big one.

you guys said Interstellar many times. yes it is. DK? MoS? BvS? you are right. you forgot all that ambient sound from the Langdon series and Inception. it's all in the technique. the little things that work.

Dunkirk presented many of that in a concise form. that's why i love this score so much.

comments like the one below will come up often. but all i can wish is more scores like this. i absolutely can't get enough of it.

i don't blame you guys... really. onwards and upwards like Junkie said ; )

Max Potcats2018-01-07 13:55:27
What is the podcast name please?

Tom reply Replies: 6 || 2017-10-03 16:37:33
I hate to be a party pooper here, but IMHO Dunkirk is a horrible soundtrack. Just a couple of sustained dissonant chords played over and over and over, ad nauseum. I mean come on Hans, can't you write beautiful and epic melodies anymore? This movie screamed for an epic theme that never materialized.

Now I know I am about to be attacked by all the die-hard Zimmer drones here but I'm just voicing my opinion. I long for the days when you could always count on Hans to deliver goose bump inducing epic memorable themes.

Waymann2017-10-03 16:57:24
I will not attack you but I don't agree that this film screamed for an epic main theme. Dunkirk is an expensive indiefilm, not Hacksaw Ridge or Saving Private Ryan. I think it was pretty clear from the beginning that this would be a more atmospheric score. Be prepared for Blade Runner 2049 this friday. It will be just the same.

Ahmad2017-10-03 16:58:58
"I mean come on Hans, can't you write beautiful and epic melodies anymore? This movie screamed for an epic theme that never materialized."

I hate to be the first one to break this down for you...

but maybe, just maybe, the guy who is in charge doesn't want that? If Nolan wanted an epic melodic theme, Zimmer would've written one. What part of collaboration you people don't understand?
It's not Zimmer's film it's Nolan's, he liked the score PERIOD.
You don't like it? that's okay, but it's perfect as it is and it served the film well. #TrollHarder

Ahmad2017-10-03 17:06:51
Wow that last line came off rude.
There are many ways and approaches to score a film and it makes me sad that some people want the same thing over and over again.

Although I disagree with you, I respect your opinion @Tom

Ds2017-10-03 17:40:08
Hans himself said that this score was more like "music by Christopher Nolan".

Christopher Nolan himself said this score had to be frustrating for Zimmer because his hands were tied for the whole process.

Der-Profl2017-10-03 21:40:27
What I like about humans is, that everyone has a different taste of music. It would be so boring if everyone would like the same. So, you don't like it, Tom, it's okay and I'm fine with that, and I like the score pretty damn much, cause it represents for me the pure sound of suspense, what the film also is, pure suspense. The score suits the film so well, that it is a great score. For me, of course!

Michael Conway Baker2018-01-06 23:52:29
I absolutely agree, Tom. I feel the score ruined the film.

Sami_Fares reply Replies: 0 || 2018-01-06 22:08:44
Hello Zimmer lover just want to ask what's the next project of him if anyone know something please enlighten us.

FaresTdkr reply Replies: 3 || 2017-12-30 09:24:38
Well yesterday I watched Batman vs superman and I really (100%)heard a lot of cues similar to Dunkirk. So I believe Hans did again and just copied from his previous work...disappointed!
this cues didn't exist in the soundtrack so you don't believe me watch the movie again.

Hybrid Soldier2017-12-30 21:05:40
Mmmmh... Nope.

Everan2018-01-05 23:28:12
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

Kingfannypack2018-01-06 05:56:10
Even if he did ďcopyĒ from his past work, itís inevitable. When you score as many films as Hans has, repeating yourself just happens voluntarily or involuntarily. John Williams does it all the time, but never gets criticized for it- he shouldnít anyways.

Dunkirk reply Replies: 5 || 2018-01-05 10:16:48
In a Deadline interview, Zimmer reveals (at 14:45) that they had made an entirely different, orchestral score for Dunkirk and had to scrap it because it didn't pair well with the movie. Too bad it wasn't released.

Hybrid Soldier2018-01-05 10:58:06
Well it's part of the process.

Hans can write 2 or 3 scores for certain movies. Matchstick Men was written 3 times, so was I'll Do Anything... Rango too...

Dunkirk2018-01-05 13:05:21
is there a phisycal fyc cd out there? maybe with other cues from the movie? @Hybrid

Dunkrik2018-01-05 13:05:53
edit: physical

badbu2018-01-05 13:10:19
Yes! But the standard Score!

CalendarMan2018-01-05 19:50:20
interesting to hear Zimmers oppinion about this score in that interview. "it's a strange hybrid of ... things!". it pretty sums it up.

pipin reply Replies: 3 || 2017-12-29 11:37:56
the fyc score is on ebay

Medigo2017-12-29 11:49:05
the only images I see include the regular soundtrack release

badbu2017-12-29 15:37:48
yes, but the standard score...

Der-Profl2017-12-30 22:00:00
@pipin: Can you send a link? Or isn't it allowed here?

dunki reply Replies: 1 || 2017-12-22 17:26:10
The Shape Of The Water FYC on the website is the CD, but the ones being sold on Ebay are the complete score. So maybe there's one from Dunkirk as well.

ffaa2017-12-23 15:31:39
send the link

Frank reply Replies: 18 || 2017-12-19 04:50:23
So the Academy posted 141 scores eligible for nomination and Dunkirk is in! I was so worried about the use of Nimrod might disqualify it.

JBSO992017-12-19 09:13:30
So the nomination is almost assured ( and I would say that even the winning, but that depends on the other nominations)

Cynist2017-12-19 16:42:19
if he didn't win for interstellar he's certainly not gonna win for Dunkirk

Max Potcats2017-12-19 19:30:34
the academy desn't deserve Hans

JBSO992017-12-19 21:28:21
@Cynist Yeah, I think Interstellar was a better score for winning an award. I think this year might go for Master Williams (Star Wars and The Post) but there might be some surprises.

From the RCP family, I wish benjamin Wallfisch got at least nominated. He has had a really great year (A Cure For Wellness, It, Blade Runner, and well, collaborating in Dunkirk), and he deserves some recognition.

Macejko2017-12-19 21:54:11
Yeah, sure, let's jerk Williams' old cock some more. God forbid he didn't get nominated every time he squeezes a tune through one buttcheek.

Brian72017-12-19 22:22:33
Why isnít Balfe and Ben mentioned as co writers for the awards?

Ds2017-12-19 22:41:48
From what I remember, Interstellar was kind of snubbed for the major awards nominations (best picture, director, actors, etc.), and was only nominated in the technical categories and the score. No surprise it didn't win.

Dunkirk on the other hand has more chances to get nominated in the top categories, thereby increasing its chance to win best score.

But anyway I don't think Hans will win. There are enough Academy members who love him to secure a nomination, but not enough for a win.

Ahmad2017-12-19 23:09:54
Interstellar was perfection, but you people are ignoring how incredible Dunkirk's score is. It's not just background music, it's part of the movie. Hans and the music department did a wonderful job.

Anyway, the academy is inconsistent. There are many scores that had incredible melodies which some might call "real music" and were snubbed because the movies themselves were snubbed. This time, it seems like Dunkirk will release more recognition (best picture, best director and many technical awards probably) so I say it definitely has a chance at winning.

james (now james callahan)2017-12-20 02:38:51
The victory for Dunkirk is given as an assured thing. Good or bad, this happens several times, either to guarantee the most beloved film of the year the largest possible number of Oscars or because of social awareness policies. Tan Dun's victory in 2000 came mainly because of the latter. His score is wonderful, but Gladiator had the advantage of having been nominated for many more categories.

But I think that Matt Reeves will be remembered. Or not. The man did a great job with Apes. However he can be ignored this year to be remembered in the future. Nolan was forgotten by The Dark Knight simply because this movie was a blockbuster. Reeves will be no different. but it is sad the lack of recognition.

james (now james callahan)2017-12-20 02:49:49
About Williams, The Post has not yet been released, but I find hard he to win for any of them. He did a great job with TLJ, even not innovating with themes.But this year is not his. Maybe an honorary award in the future. As one that Morricone received years ago.

About Balfe and Wallfisch, they were credited as additional composers along with Andrew K, Steve Mazzaro, Andy Paige and Satnam R. That's the problem of the Academy with HZ.

isildur2017-12-20 10:47:35
Yeah. If Hans actually cared about getting an Oscar, just like other composers he would've put only his name on all his scores. Gladiator was disqualified just because Hans refused to drop Lisa's name event though she didn't compose any of the score. He values and acknowledges the contribution of all those who even remotely helped him on his scores so much and still gets the hatred for having so-called "Ghost Writers".

If it was Hans who scored the recent "Justice League" movie and had Geoff Zanelli, Pinar Topak as an additional composers everybody would've said Hans did very little but as it was someone else nobody mentions it even once. Meh.

James (now calahan)2017-12-20 11:12:01
Lisa wrote all her vocal contributions in Gladiator. Most of them along with Badelt. Hans alone is responsible for 80% of the album perhaps. "Roma is Light", for example, is Gerrard and Badelt.
People tend to relativize when other composers use additional composers. Zanelli and Toprak would appear in the eyes of these people as main composers if Zimmer signed the album.

I think the main problem is that the Hans composition process varies widely and is incomprehensible. Sometimes he makes a suite and lets several teams take care of certain parts of the score (at worlds end, angels and demons), other times he does the same and leaves it in the hands of a single composer (inception, the dark knight rises),others that he co-signs, but that clearly has almost no material truly composed by him (Boss Baby, The Little Prince) and which he works with several people, but still make up more than 50% of the song (Dunkirk, Gladiator). Apart from the fact that he needs conscious orchestrators who need to correct mistakes and improve the presentation of the music so that it can be played by real instruments.

Edmund Meinerts2017-12-20 13:01:26
Macejko, do you have to be a dick about everything?

isildur (Original)2017-12-20 14:48:46
Hey! That isn't me. Get your own name dude.

Macejko2017-12-20 16:03:29
No, but I do enjoy it, Edmund.

Jessica2017-12-20 16:05:22
@ Edmund: why is he a dick? just because he's talking about JWs ol' dick? He's right, so don't be a pussy.

Edmund Meinerts2017-12-21 17:27:37
I AM a pussy. Everyone knows.

Edmund Meinerts2017-12-22 10:18:51
^ not me, obviously.

Yes, he has a point, Williams does get nominated for everything, deserved or not (as does Thomas Newman and increasingly Alexandre Desplat), but there are less...distasteful ways to put things.

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Dunkirk soundtrack - Hans Zimmer 2017